Caporegime
Those links are all a flash in the pan compared to David 'We'll be at war' Cameron and the constant fear mongering coming from the remain side.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)
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Soldato
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Oh, Cameron's certainly made a miscalculation on how he briefed the press about his big intervention. But is the substance there? Yep. Can he be beaten by a few rants? Nope. Flash in the pan? Well, let's just say Leave better hope for a strong shy Brexit factor and massive late swing.
Soldato
Plenty of fear from both sides. I am voting with my wallet and science book and not because im scared of this or that.
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I don't think anyone cared if you cared either lolYes. Vote Leave is livid, and will be more so after the same stunts emerge in the upcoming debates Nige pipped them to. Between Cummings and the GO lot, they're really struggling to keep a lid on the crazies, that's for sure.
No, it won't do anything for you or Brexit. Do I care? Not in the slightest.
I was just pointing out the articles aren't even worth posting but it's okay if that bothers you.
Soldato
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I don't think anyone cared if you cared either lol
Don't go googly-eyed on me just yet Insanties -- several glorious weeks are still ahead of us!
We can even play Pretend Brexit and Hidden Agenda, if you like. Though I'll pass on Twister! 
"The Labour leader has urged young people to "take control" of their future and vote to remain in the EU."
Ok, take control by giving away control to the EU?
Ok, take control by giving away control to the EU?
Hmmm... I'm probably late to the party noticing this and despite it quite clearly being designed with an end result in mind I thought it was quite interesting, despite my natural instinct to "stay in". Could do without the clumsy propaganda though, started off ok...
https://vimeo.com/166378572
Seems impossible to find sensible even handed advice without an agenda though.
https://vimeo.com/166378572
Seems impossible to find sensible even handed advice without an agenda though.
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Out of interest is there any data on age, education and wealth for any EU polls? I've always assumed that generally younger people are more pro EU and older people against, but not really seen any data to support that either way.
Soldato
There is a pretty in depth table with very interesting breakdown. Not just age, education but what sort of newspapers the voters read and such. To which polls this refers to, i cant remember. I think it was in last months thread buried in there somewhere.
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Soldato
As a 60+, social class AB (I think) NW English, A level educated professional engineer, Times reading, Conservative voter, I am pointing in all directions.
Man of Honour
I find my attention drawn to the apparent 3% of UKIP supporters who would vote remain. It seems a little incongruous when the single biggest issue and main aim of the party is exit the EU for someone to be a supporter and not also want that outcome.
Thanks for sight of it though, it's interesting to see and in case anyone wants to read more the link to YouGov gives some further analysis of the survey.
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I'd tend to vote for any party, I tend to be a tactical voter who recognises none are perfect and it's better to aim for a balance over time of different policies rather than just a single party vision with the usual flaws of them not focusing on areas they deem unimportant. Largely I swing for labour / lib dem though, I'm in the age group of 18 - 29 and I have A-levels (never went to uni though) so a lot of things that would typically push as a remain vote. They don't have it in here but usually the independant tends to be the main paper I read which wasn't on the graph but I have no doubt it would have been on the remain side anyway. Although at work we only have access to the with there blocks on most sites to the daily mail, the sun or sky news so I tend to read those when at work and others when at home for a more balanced view. I seem to respect both ends of the argument but there's no real correct choice in this argument, it's all about different priorities and even though I meet a lot of the criteria that push me to be a remainer there is just the obvious fact that the EU is flawed, undemocratic, takes our sovereignity, has a different world view to many british people and isn't proving it's worth economically (growth is poor, unemployment poor, trade would still exist outside EU etc.). There is many good things about the EU as well but the failures to meet it's standard and the increasing beaurocracy has me quite concerned, I believe very much we're better off without it politically but economically it's clearly a different matter.As a Guardian-reading, 34 year old, AB social class Londoner who usually votes Labour, I am a walking cliché for the Remain camp.
Do you vote for real political change and a more open and honest system or do you vote to keep the system that keeps pulling powers further away from the people in the new second layer of 'democracy' that has so far proven to be quite beneficial in quite a few areas but which has shown inability to compromise and bring thngs closer to the people? The European citizens initiative is a clear example of how well the EU interacts with local people, the lack of understanding most people have over the EU and it's accountability is often quite shocking too. In the end it strikes me like having a dictatorship (just an example) where you can make arguments for dictatorships (quicker, more effective policy making that has less interference, impedements and a singular vision) and if you had a good dictator it'd be easy to profess how the system works but what happens when people get replaced and time moves on and you end up with worse politicans or dictators? The EU strikes me as that kind of system, good when it works and abysmal when it doesn't. Closer to the ground politics always makes sense for real accountability, ability to get it changed in the future should a policy not work and matching actual public need. Quality of poltiics and democracy is obviously what the EU lacks as it's too easy to distance itself from public opinion since it's near impossible to guage all of europes opinion and say they're wrong. If only the EU was less obsessed with controlling all policies and taking powers away but still managed to improve some parts then it'd be perfectly fine but that's the reality, you're voting for a better political environment with more accountability and more locally focused vs a more globally universal approach with economic benefits and a bigger push on environment and human rights etc. Which one can we try and salvage best when we chuck the other in the fire and which will have the longer impact? There's not many who could give you an honest answer on both sides so it's just a matter of which you prioritise most. I'm a bit torn still but back to being undecided
Edit: Looks like those small growth stats have been revised downward on more recent estimates as well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36284549
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Soldato
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More of a fun post but to bring this back up here as an example of when social justice warrior is a detrimental thing.I find it hilarious how you think "Social Justice Warrior" is an insult
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-36263711
Money for criminals and people who's own children would tell you they don't deserve a penny spurred on by immediate emotional reactions and self ideologies. The problem with internet justice is that it's usually blind justice and a lack of understanding of the real situations or the people involved leads to these sort of mistakes. Just like when you see vids on youtube and it's a one sided argument unless you can see the other persons perspective. Having morals and a respect for doing the right thing is always a high priority but internet justice is regularly proved to be based on misinformation. Just felt like I'd point it out after strolling on this bbc article and remembering it being mentioned. Again though, morals and ethics are necessary in all walks of life but not internet parole mentality.
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Interesting, so basically older, lower educated, lower income people are against the EU whereas younger, higher educated, higher income people are generally supporting of it.
So that comment by labour asking the young to vote is fairly pertinent as many of the out campaign probably won't be around much and/or won't be affected by any changes regarding this vote or many future EU regulations. On the other hand the young will be disproportionately affected (either way) by a vote that may well be swayed by the old.
As a Guardian-reading, 34 year old, AB social class Londoner who usually votes Labour, I am a walking cliché for the Remain camp.
I'm not far off that either. Add in university and a lib dem vote last election.
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That's one swing on it but equally the older people have had more experience and seen more political scenarios than the young so a brash decision by young know it alls (I'm young myself mind) can be misinformed so it's just easier pickings for scare tactics from labour really. Whereas education is one way to look at it there is also experience and I'm sure the older voters who have experienced far more elections, political personalities and changes in there lifetime are still not voting for giggles. They'll be voting based on what they feel is right anyway so whether people think it effects them in the future as much isn't really a big detraction.
I'd find the idea of income to not really be too relevant either, it'd only further suggest that those riding the gravy train or with big business links are wanting to ignore the views of those who don't feel they've prospered under the EU whereas the vote is obviously open to any and not just the rich. Education is a quite interesting one still as it could reveal peoples knowledge on the EU subject and also there experiences with interacting with it in the educational field but I don't see why income and age would be something I'd truly consider as a good thing that it's on the EU side. I'm more inclined to respect older peoples views than the university kiddies. Especially bearing in mind the table clearly shows within the age group of 40 and above (hardly the age you expect the EU vote to be irrelevant to your future) it's already dead even near enough.
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While experience counts, generally the older you are the more conservative you are and potentially wanting to hanker towards a period of time that will never happen again. Experience is important, but at the same time so is education. I'm sure there is no coincidence that the "lower brow" newspapers are also read by the most vocally anti EU.
Income could be important because people on lower incomes generally struggle more and may well try blaming other entities on their low income. The EU is that big bogeyman, especially if the papers they read (lower income usually tallies with lower education) aren't explaining complex subjects properly, or at all.
While the 40-49 group are broadly non plussed either way those of an older age are staunchly against the EU. Generally this age group is more conservative, less interested in multicultural, liberal or "young" views than many other parts of society. I'm guessing here but "foreigners" controlling our laws and immigration are probably a big talking point for them. On the other hand most young people now grow up in multicultural schools, have friends from different backgrounds and quite possibly work with people from all over as well. To them "foreigners" aren't scary, they are friends and colleagues. The young may also see the EU as less conservative than the UK, and more open and liberal, being closer to the ideals they believe in. It's no secret England in particular is very conservative compared to most of the ref of Europe.
Obviously they are stereotypes and there will be those that don't fit the mould, but it will cover most people.
Income could be important because people on lower incomes generally struggle more and may well try blaming other entities on their low income. The EU is that big bogeyman, especially if the papers they read (lower income usually tallies with lower education) aren't explaining complex subjects properly, or at all.
While the 40-49 group are broadly non plussed either way those of an older age are staunchly against the EU. Generally this age group is more conservative, less interested in multicultural, liberal or "young" views than many other parts of society. I'm guessing here but "foreigners" controlling our laws and immigration are probably a big talking point for them. On the other hand most young people now grow up in multicultural schools, have friends from different backgrounds and quite possibly work with people from all over as well. To them "foreigners" aren't scary, they are friends and colleagues. The young may also see the EU as less conservative than the UK, and more open and liberal, being closer to the ideals they believe in. It's no secret England in particular is very conservative compared to most of the ref of Europe.
Obviously they are stereotypes and there will be those that don't fit the mould, but it will cover most people.
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