The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

Roady · 5 Dec 2016 at 12:55

randomshenans said:
My knees are still giving me jip though, so that's fun.

What kinda pain? Nerve or just pulled/twisted? What else have you been up to?

Good work on my riding? It was one of the most boring turbo sessions I've done for a long time. Holding intervals at 157W and 110W wasn't quite the 'workout' I needed in a freezing cold garage! Actually didn't take my joggers off until 2/3 the way through and had to do some of my own efforts after to warm myself up! No point doing a cooldown when you're freezing ya nuts off already!

Even more annoyed my Kodi - Pulse build wouldn't update so I hadn't got sources for Walking Dead S02, I'd probably have ridden for longer if it had!

pinki104 · 5 Dec 2016 at 13:02

Can anybody recommend me a reasonably priced indoor bike for an overweight rider? I used to ride a lot back in 2012-13 and i was pretty fit regularly doing 100 mile rides but i havent been out much at all since then and im now 120kg.

FrenchTart · 5 Dec 2016 at 13:04

Just pick up any regular road bike (that fits you) and a turbo trainer. It doesn't need to be high spec though you may want to invest in a good quality saddle.

Roady · 5 Dec 2016 at 15:41

No need to worry about weight, you're only riding inside then basically get the cheapest bike you can with the best saddle, maybe even buying one of the Decathlon's and spending £30 or so on something like the Charge Spoon (or whatever everyone's currently using/recommending). As you're not riding outside bike/wheel weight is not worth worrying about! You'll soon lose the weight if you enjoy your time on the turbo! 120kg isn't *that* heavy anyway, most of the trainers are built to withstand big americans!

Any generic saddle suggestions actually guys? I'm considering swapping out my Arione on the turbo as find it uncomfortable over a couple of hours, the Phenom my Diverge came with is much more comfortable so may get another. Arione was fine out on the road, just a little too firm for long turbo sessions. Need a cutout for some relief!

pinki104 · 5 Dec 2016 at 16:02

ah thats great thanks, i currently have this years boardman hybrid bike £1000 so i think that will work with a trainer such as tacx vortex smart? yeah my saddle is an issue as i rode to whitby for charity a few months ago and i had very bad saddle sore. I currently have an SDG Bel Air RL Cro-Mo "Collection" Saddle.

Roady · 6 Dec 2016 at 08:20

pinki104 said:
I currently have an SDG Bel Air RL Cro-Mo "Collection" Saddle.

Never heard of it! (not unusual for most 'off the shelf' kinda brands)

Hybrid will work fine on the Vortex Smart - when you mount the brake unit on the Trainer frame there are 3 different fittings which relate to wheel size.

lordrobs · 6 Dec 2016 at 10:56

Got about a minute into the warm up of a Zwift workout then realised that I'd not actually clamped the roller to the rear wheel

I should have just carried on like that because the result of my first ride since my almost deadly man flu was rather weak!

I also found that using a dumb trainer with virtual power it is impossible to do some of the intervals that the workouts want you to do. Steady 180 Watts > 10 second 710 Watt burst > 180 Watts. By the time I've rattled through the gears and got my cadence up to 140 rpm I'm still only putting out 450 Watts and it's flashing "LESS POWER" at me as the interval has ended

BennyC · 6 Dec 2016 at 12:50

Get out the saddle and start stamping then, wuss

Roady · 6 Dec 2016 at 15:39

That works but the problem with many 'dumb' trainers is their lack of resistance. I know my Kurt Kinetic I had the same issues, as you pushed harder/stood then the resistance is there but as you start to lay down the power, the power curve/resistance level of the trainer isn't sharp enough so the measured speed/estimated power in screen 'lags' too far behind to hit the power levels.

I get the same on my Vortex Smart, but as the trainer (in ERG mode) increases the resistance much faster the power curve is 'stronger' through the pedal stroke, meaning you hit peak power much earlier so can hit the interval within a pedal stroke or two. On the dumb trainer it would be 5-6 pedal strokes at least (and possibly still ramping up, used to take me nearly 10 seconds to hit 500W and I would occasionally spin it out, no chance of that with ERG on the Vortex).

lordrobs · 6 Dec 2016 at 16:14

BennyC said:
Get out the saddle and start stamping then, wuss

It is the lag that's the problem. The virtual power is a simple calculation of x RPM = y Watts. What it doesn't take into account it that I'm accelerating hard so actually putting out more watts than it thinks. It also makes hitting a target power difficult as until you settle into a steady cadence the numbers don't really match what your legs are doing.

140 cadence in top gear at max resistance is only 450 Watts which doesn't help either

TLDR: Excuses, excuses...

Roady · 6 Dec 2016 at 21:01

FTP test completed. First one on Vortex Smart, previous (badly calibrated FTP was 227. I had around 217 before that).

271W. Not going to lie... I threw up a little.

randomshenans · 6 Dec 2016 at 21:17

Boom. That's wicked!
How long did you do?

One More Solo · 6 Dec 2016 at 22:44

Roady said:
FTP test completed. First one on Vortex Smart, previous (badly calibrated FTP was 227. I had around 217 before that).

271W. Not going to lie... I threw up a little.

Great work, that's some improvement.

I managed to hang on the ZSUN chaingang tonight. One of the hardest rides I've done in a while but good training. Rest day tomorrow!

https://www.strava.com/activities/795448860

lordrobs · 7 Dec 2016 at 08:41

Roady said:
FTP test completed. First one on Vortex Smart, previous (badly calibrated FTP was 227. I had around 217 before that).

271W. Not going to lie... I threw up a little.

Good numbers!

The fact that I now can't keep the pace on the workouts means that I think my result of 237 was a bit high! I think around 215 is probably more realistic for me.

Roady · 7 Dec 2016 at 10:33

Looking at parts of the Zwift 'Beginner 6 week FTP builder' last night and no part of it seemed to contain an FTP test! The first 2 weeks is 99% Endurance style riding at very low power levels (only 1 interval is over 100% FTP) and it's not until week 3 that some of the strength work starts.

http://www.stronglikeox.bike/6wk-ftp-builder/

I'm think I'm just going to abandon it now (2 days into week 1) or maybe start at week 3 (lol). I don't have the time to do the other FTP builder as it's 12 weeks, I'd maybe do it if I wasn't looking to club/social ride when the weather suits on the weekends... :rolleyes:

As I'm looking at these plans with the intentions of giving my winter riding some structure (rather than any real FTP gains) I'm going to do the '8 week race day prep', many of the workouts concentrate on power and sprints which will help me more for the type of riding I want to progress (fast group stuff).

Did my first FTP test on the calibrated Vortex Smart last night, my previous recent results were all over the place (257W & blew up before the end, then another struggled with power and came out with 217W), my test from last spring was 227W which was what I'd set my FTP back to (and finding it ok). Came out with an FTP of 271W which I'm happy with.

Part of the warm up was at 240W and I found it a little too easy so increased it to 260W. Figured I'd start the test at that, but soon after starting I settled into a fairly comfortable cadence at 260-270W, a couple of times I ramped up to 300W to see if I could sustain harder but just knew I couldn't. For the last 5 minutes I decided to go for it, pushing 300W-290W and then empying myself for the last minute. Couldn't have gone harder at the end, but with the first 15 minutes at 279W average I may try and test at 280W when next doing one.

One More Solo · 7 Dec 2016 at 11:50

I'd probably agree with that Roady, some of the sessions in that FTP builder program are so easy as to be pointless (you'd get more out of an unstructured group ride than doing short intervals at 70%). It'd suit a total beginner I guess.

BennyC · 7 Dec 2016 at 12:22

Roady said:
FTP test completed. First one on Vortex Smart, previous (badly calibrated FTP was 227. I had around 217 before that).

271W. Not going to lie... I threw up a little.

Be interested to see what your PM reads when you eventually get one. I find my Vortex to be a good 30w+ out despite being calibrated correctly.

Roady · 7 Dec 2016 at 15:48

randomshenans said:
Boom. That's wicked!
How long did you do?

The 20 minute (short) one. Every time I look at the full one I cry a little and wimp out...!

One More Solo said:
Great work, that's some improvement.

I managed to hang on the ZSUN chaingang tonight. One of the hardest rides I've done in a while but good training. Rest day tomorrow!

https://www.strava.com/activities/795448860

Saw you'd been on, think I saw Chris pop up on Zwift android app but when I went to select him for a Ride On he vanished.

Really find the Zwift android companion app quite buggy, there are times when I wake my phone up and the app isn't showing any data (as if not connected to zwift), other times it's correct and then other times again it's showing old data and not updating. Just annoying as without it you can't get a 'rider list' to interact with, returning Ride On's and the like, or see friends online. :confused:

One More Solo said:
I'd probably agree with that Roady, some of the sessions in that FTP builder program are so easy as to be pointless (you'd get more out of an unstructured group ride than doing short intervals at 70%). It'd suit a total beginner I guess.

Yeah, it looks also like the first 2 weeks are mostly about adding volume to a rider with endurance/fat burning type stuff. Limited use for an existing rider with volume coming from elsewhere (like me!). Good sessions to do, but not really part of what I'd consider an 'FTP builder'! :rolleyes:

Guess the clue should be with the name featuring '(Beginner)'!

BennyC said:
Be interested to see what your PM reads when you eventually get one. I find my Vortex to be a good 30w+ out despite being calibrated correctly.

Woohoo! FTP of 300W?!

BennyC · 7 Dec 2016 at 16:30

Roady said:
Woohoo! FTP of 300W?!

Lol the other way

(srs) very generous power readings from my Vortex.

That said it doesn't really matter what the figure is as long as it's consistent.

My Turbo power, as many others experience, is 10% less than on the road (for multiple reasons). TrainerRoad works from that 'Turbo FTP' so IF & TSS is still correct for use on the PMC. Rides outside on my Elemnt work from my 'Road FTP' so again IF & TSS etc are correct.

For example on my final ride in Majorca, a week deep, with 200+ miles and 20,000ft climbing in my legs I hit a power PR of 321w for 12 minutes (325w for 10 minutes too). Guarantee I couldn't hold that for more than about 6 inside on the turbo without turning inside out

And on the local 'monster' climb 382w for 5 minutes (361 watts for 6 minutes). Inside I would literally have ground to a halt. God that was gross.

Roady · 8 Dec 2016 at 12:59

BennyC said:
That said it doesn't really matter what the figure is as long as it's consistent.<snip>

And on the local 'monster' climb 382w for 5 minutes (361 watts for 6 minutes). Inside I would literally have ground to a halt. God that was gross.

Totally agree, as with anything power related (Turbo/PWM's) regardless of where it is (inside/outside) without consistent data then the whole thing is 'useless' as an aid/guide.

But when I know I can hit the 8% section of the Pretzel on Zwift @300W then hopefully I can hit real world climbs of a similar grade at least with the same effort and see the results...

Especially with this beastie I need to cross off, it's the only 'long' climb within easy reach for my Strava summary... Nothing longer in Wales or most of England outside of the Peak District! :cool: