• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..

Status
Not open for further replies.
weldon855 said:
The same can be said for ultra high detailed textures and assets. You create them to the highest detail and scale them back
Click to expand...

Sort of. With texture's it's not too bad and that's what we see a lot of today. Last generation of games we saw console releases with a PC release that came with high res texture pack. That was likely because they made the textures in high resolution and then down sampled them for the console and later on released the higher resolution ones for the PC. It's harder to do that with things like like model complexity however, making a more detailed mesh is genuinely more work in most cases.

There are some other easy wins with things like tessellation, that's a really cool technology that again once implemented you can simply give it some parameters and it's trivial to alter quality vs performance. But making the original assets higher detailed without some kind of tessellation requires a lot more time modeling.
 
aoaaron said:
Just to clarify, you want whichever GPU you want to last you no longer than the next GPU refresh? In which case surely either of them will do this extremely simple task as in the meantime, I don't see any non-Hopper or non-RNDA3 GPU really beating AMD/NVIDIA offerings ...
Click to expand...

Sadly AMD's next gen RT is as bad as Nvidia's last gen RT. So that rules AMD out at the moment.


aoaaron said:
Is there not a single game or benchmark available at present which shows 6800XT destroying the 'VRAM-crippled' 3080 in-game? due to the 16GB of VRAM ..
Click to expand...

Not that I've seen yet. Devs would really need to go out of there way to produce such a game and then someone would come along, run the textures through AI and produce a better looking game. Not only that but think of the money that would be lost to all those upgrading to a 3060Ti (8GB) over the next 18months.
 
Wrinkly said:
Sadly AMD's next gen RT is as bad as Nvidia's last gen RT. So that rules AMD out at the moment.




Not that I've seen yet. Devs would really need to go out of there way to produce such a game and then someone would come along, run the textures through AI and produce a better looking game. Not only that but think of the money that would be lost to all those upgrading to a 3060Ti (8GB) over the next 18months.
Click to expand...
The 3060ti owners can reduce texture settings the same as they will be for ray traced settings.

I just don't get the argument of 10gb is enough because "consoles" and then as part of the same argument ray tracing has to be maxed out even though consoles will have limited use of it.

The 3080 and 6800 are very capable cards but if the 3080 had 12gb this thread wouldnt exist. .
 
weldon855 said:
The same can be said for ultra high detailed textures and assets. You create them to the highest detail and scale them back
Click to expand...
Just to add to this, some textures are procedual and can be easily scaled up.

PrincessFrosty said:
Sort of. With texture's it's not too bad and that's what we see a lot of today. Last generation of games we saw console releases with a PC release that came with high res texture pack. That was likely because they made the textures in high resolution and then down sampled them for the console and later on released the higher resolution ones for the PC. It's harder to do that with things like like model complexity however, making a more detailed mesh is genuinely more work in most cases..
Click to expand...

Most meshes now start off as multi million polygon sculpts and are then retoped to what ever the polygon budget is (example 10,000 tris). The detail from the sculpt is then baked into the normal/displacement texture. While retopo does take more time than flicking a switch in a texturing program, it is probably around a few days work. The detail is already there.
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
Most meshes now start off as multi million polygon sculpts and are then retoped to what ever the polygon budget is (example 10,000 tris). The detail from the sculpt is then baked into the normal/displacement texture. While retopo does take more time than flicking a switch in a texturing program, it is probably around a few days work. The detail is already there.
Click to expand...

While that tends to be true of things like primary characters models which are made in 3d modeling apps like zpaint and require high detail normal maps to add in additional height/lighting information, most of the world geometry is not. That tends to be made in more traditional apps like 3DSMax were there's less sculpting and more manual poly creation, anything that's a rigid body tends to be made this way. Filling the world with thousands of these static meshes is fairly time consuming and real detail added by hand rather than by say tessallation or other other automatic sub division techniques is fairly tedious work. You certainly can't make 2 class of games like that, it would just be too much work. Re-doing meshes can also mean needing to re-do UVMaps to make sure textures look right.

Textures it's much easier, same with audio quality and things like that, original artwork can be done in higher fidelity for little or no extra cost and then downsampled quite easily, so they're easier wins. If you look at a game like Cold War there's an insane amount of mesh detail in the world, one of the surprising things about it other than very high texture quality was the sheer overwhelming detail of the props in the maps and how densely populated some of them were. The opening scene in the bar was almost like they were showing off with how much they could cram into one area.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
While that tends to be true of things like primary characters models which are made in 3d modeling apps like zpaint and require high detail normal maps to add in additional height/lighting information, most of the world geometry is not. That tends to be made in more traditional apps like 3DSMax were there's less sculpting and more manual poly creation, anything that's a rigid body tends to be made this way. Filling the world with thousands of these static meshes is fairly time consuming and real detail added by hand rather than by say tessallation or other other automatic sub division techniques is fairly tedious work. You certainly can't make 2 class of games like that, it would just be too much work. Re-doing meshes can also mean needing to re-do UVMaps to make sure textures look right.

Textures it's much easier, same with audio quality and things like that, original artwork can be done in higher fidelity for little or no extra cost and then downsampled quite easily, so they're easier wins. If you look at a game like Cold War there's an insane amount of mesh detail in the world, one of the surprising things about it other than very high texture quality was the sheer overwhelming detail of the props in the maps and how densely populated some of them were. The opening scene in the bar was almost like they were showing off with how much they could cram into one area.
Click to expand...

Normal maps and displacement maps are not only used on sculpted item, but are used on poly modelled items but it depends on what the object is and the design criteria. If the item is simple enough that those maps are not required it could be made from scratch in a day or two including texturing. But if it is that simple they probably wouldn't bother putting a "high" poly model in a game.

UV unwrapping while tedious can be done in a few hours for a simple item. Depending on the workflow it is possible to retain UV seams information across models of different face counts.

A simple object may only use procedual materials, that is easy enough to transfer across. More complex items do get more love and attention but certain apps do have the ability to transfer paint strokes across different meshes. How well this works is a different matter.

FYI It is called Zbrush.
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
Normal maps and displacement maps are not only used on sculpted item, but are used on poly modelled items but it depends on what the object is and the design criteria. If the item is simple enough that those maps are not required it could be made from scratch in a day or two including texturing. But if it is that simple they probably wouldn't bother putting a "high" poly model in a game.

UV unwrapping while tedious can be done in a few hours for a simple item. Depending on the workflow it is possible to retain UV seams information across models of different face counts.

A simple object may only use procedual materials, that is easy enough to transfer across. More complex items do get more love and attention but certain apps do have the ability to transfer paint strokes across different meshes. How well this works is a different matter.

FYI It is called Zbrush.
Click to expand...

All true. And yet making more complex models is still going to take longer. No studio does this (to my knowledge) because there's just no benefit to it, the ROI for the PC is not sufficient despite them being able to make a better looking game it pretty much never happens. Which is the essence of where this debate started which was someone saying that devs are going to target consoles first because they're the lowest common denominator and the PCs rarely get any additional attention. The best we can hope for is taking the effects consoles have which are scaleable through changing a paremeter and exposing that to the player through the visual menu. For example giving us the ability to set higher resolutions, further LOD boundaries, longer draw distances, less fog, more rays shot to ray trace a surface, NPC/traffic density, and things like that.
 
Looks like horizon zero dawn got an update to better handle vram swapping when the vram budget operates close to the vram limit. I think for that game it's 6-8gb at 4K.
 
Hickaru said:
Do you mean that we should measure the actual usage to determine if vram is enough?
Click to expand...
No it means the game engine will cap you and you will likely experience some low res textures and pop ins so you don't experience the frame drops. This behaviour would be noticable while playing the game not while standing still looking a vram statistics and fps.
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
Interesting claim here. No idea how we could properly test this.


Edit: @TNA Don't worry about tweaking the texture settings yourself, apparently the game engine will turn down the textures for you:p
Click to expand...
This is not really news though, this was known by anyone who has access to 8GB and a 16GB GPU a long time ago.

weldon855 said:
No it means the game engine will cap you and you will likely experience some low res textures and pop ins so you don't experience the frame drops. This behaviour would be noticable while playing the game not while standing still looking a vram statistics and fps.
Click to expand...
Compare the 1% and 0.1% lows between an 8GB GPU and a 16GB in some games that use more video memory and you may see a difference. Speaking from experience, you can feel the difference in some games.

It’s not really sensible to use an 8GB and proclaim that a new and untested metric (VRAM allocation) is the only way to measure the usage and performance cost of VRAM saturation.
 
Last edited:
Th0nt said:
:o
Click to expand...
Indeed.

He can poke fun all he likes. I shall be enjoying Cyberpunk 2077 4K with RT on release :D;)

You too with your 3090 (if DPD ever deliver it). At least you won't have to listen to the it is gimped and not enough VRAM rubbish over and over :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom