14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Zarax]

Ok, Maybe the PCB is longer than it needs to be but it is a weird shape...

Nothing that weird, remember how the Pentium II was shaped?

 

[humbug]

Nothing that weird, remember how the Pentium II was shaped?

I don't, was it really weird?

 

[Zarax]

I don't, was it really weird?

Think old style console cartridge-like weird.

 

[humbug]

Think old style console cartridge-like weird.

Oh.... yeah i do remember those.

 

[Jay85]

Nothing that weird, remember how the Pentium II was shaped?

Had to google it, wow that is weird LOL! Looks like a pci slot addon.

 

[Zarax]

Had to google it, wow that is weird LOL! Looks like a pci slot addon.

It was a weird era, in mid 1990s Intel bet on extra instructions to accelerate games (MMX), sadly those were rendered nearly useless by the arrival of dedicated graphic cards.
Think of it as an attempt of a dedicated gaming and multimedia CPU which sadly didn't go that well: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pentium-mmx-live-expectations,19.html

 

[Robert896r1]

This is Raptorlake. the cluster i highlighted in red on the right are the 16 E cores, if you measure that you will see it takes up the same amount of space as nearly 6 P cores.

The die size is 260mm, its the biggest mainstream die Intel have ever made, this P and E core nonsense isn't winning it for them, to put that in to perspective the Logic die of a 7900XTX is 300mm, the 8 core Zen 4 CCD's measure 70mm each. the Zen 4 cores are little bigger than Intel's E cores.

It's interesting how you forgot the IOD for Zen or maybe found a magical way to make zen chips work without it.

7950x = 70+70+122 = 262
13900k/s = 257

Here's the "IOD" sections for intel laid out over the core.

 

[humbug]

It's interesting how you forgot the IOD for Zen or maybe found a magical way to make zen chips work without it.

7950x = 70+70+122 = 262
13900k/s = 257

Here's the "IOD" sections for intel laid out over the core.

The IO die is on a cheap node, it costs about $8

 

[Robert896r1]

The IO die is on a cheap node, it costs about $8

Why are you pivoting to cost? your post was purely looking at architecture.

Also, when did you learn about the buy price from TSMC for ccd's, IOD's, and internal cost of intel Fab BU to intel CCG BU?

Please link official info.

 

[humbug]

Why are you pivoting to cost? your post was purely looking at architecture.

Also, when did you learn about the buy price from TSMC for ccd's, IOD's, and internal cost of intel Fab BU to intel CCG BU?

Please link official info.

What is the need to keep die size down if not for cost reasons?

 

[Capitano]

I feel like 14th gen and 15th gen for intel are going to be monstrous, every year the leap in performance seems to be very noteworthy and it keeps making me hold off from upgrading

 

[Zarax]

I feel like 14th gen and 15th gen for intel are going to be monstrous, every year the leap in performance seems to be very noteworthy and it keeps making me hold off from upgrading

13th gen is good if you want performance on a reasonable budget.
Good DDR-4 with an i7-13770k is pretty close to the top performance at a reasonable cost and the main compromise you're making is basically the dead end socket (not an issue if you plan to keep the CPU for 5+ years).

 

[Capitano]

13th gen is good if you want performance on a reasonable budget.
Good DDR-4 with an i7-13770k is pretty close to the top performance at a reasonable cost and the main compromise you're making is basically the dead end socket (not an issue if you plan to keep the CPU for 5+ years).

For sure yea, Im in no rush to upgrade atm as im happy with what I have - but sometimes it does get tempting knowing every new generation is quite a bit better than the previous one

I dont upgrade that often, so if I was to i would most likely wait for the new sockets and let them mature for a couple years and then take the best course of action from there

 

[Dave2150]

I feel like 14th gen and 15th gen for intel are going to be monstrous, every year the leap in performance seems to be very noteworthy and it keeps making me hold off from upgrading

Intel need huge architectural and process advantages to be worth buying over Zen4X3D, I don't see how they can do all that by 14th gen. They'll be hard pressed to match Zen4 energy efficiency, yet alone beat it on performance at the same time.

Intel's only chance is Zen5 being late, or being another bulldozer, both of which seem very unlikely.

Hopefully they do compete though, can't have AMD with no competition for years, that's not good for the consumer.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

Intel need huge architectural and process advantages to be worth buying over Zen4X3D, I don't see how they can do all that by 14th gen. They'll be hard pressed to match Zen4 energy efficiency, yet alone beat it on performance at the same time.

Intel's only chance is Zen5 being late, or being another bulldozer, both of which seem very unlikely.

Hopefully they do compete though, can't have AMD with no competition for years, that's not good for the consumer.

Maybe not everyone wants the X3D chips that mostly only really benefit gaming, and are hit & miss there too.

How do you manage to come out with such rubbish, it obviously makes no difference which side you are on.

 

[Dave2150]

Maybe not everyone wants the X3D chips that mostly only really benefit gaming, and are hit & miss there too.

How do you manage to come out with such rubbish, it obviously makes no difference which side you are on.

I'm not on any side, I own and use both. Currently have a 13900k and 7950X3D, one in my main gaming rig (7950X3D) and one in my VR rig, which is in another room due to room scale needing a large empty space (13900k).

Both great CPU's, though Zen4X3D is overall faster in the games I play, while using HALF the power.

 

[Bencher]

Intel need huge architectural and process advantages to be worth buying over Zen4X3D, I don't see how they can do all that by 14th gen. They'll be hard pressed to match Zen4 energy efficiency, yet alone beat it on performance at the same time.

That's just nonsense. The zen 3d is a lot more efficient in gaming than the 13th gen, and a slight lead in heavy MT efficiency (at same power limits), but then it loses by a mile in everything that's mixed usage. Unless amd fixes the idle / low / mixed usage power draw it's never going to be an option for me. Intel draws 1.5w in idle and 8-15 watts while im actually working - while the 7950x or the 3d needs 30 to 50. The difference is absolutely nuts.

 

[Grim5]

Hwinfo now supports and detects arrow lake CPUs

Intel Arrow Lake-S Desktop CPUs Get Preliminary Support In HWiNFO

The latest version of HWiNFO has added preliminary support for Intel's next-generation Arrow Lake-S Desktop CPUs.

wccftech.com

 

[Capitano]

Intel need huge architectural and process advantages to be worth buying over Zen4X3D, I don't see how they can do all that by 14th gen. They'll be hard pressed to match Zen4 energy efficiency, yet alone beat it on performance at the same time.

Intel's only chance is Zen5 being late, or being another bulldozer, both of which seem very unlikely.

Hopefully they do compete though, can't have AMD with no competition for years, that's not good for the consumer.

Intels 13th gen performance has been very competitive has it not? the top end is on par, if not beats the top end 4x3d chips and even the mid tier ones like the 13600 is very good bang for buck

 

[Dave2150]

Intels 13th gen performance has been very competitive has it not? the top end is on par, if not beats the top end 4x3d chips and even the mid tier ones like the 13600 is very good bang for buck

At the highend, the 7950x3d beats the 13900k/ks in games, while consuming half the power. IMO that's not competitive, especially given the price of electricity these days. Zen4x3d = obvious choice.

At the low/medium end, Intel is currently better value, due to DDR4, z690 motherboard prices and core counts of the i5.