14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Bencher]

Mods - please stop him trolling. The 13900KS, at stock, is more power hungry than the 13900k, this is a simple fact confirmed by multiple reviewers:

Efficiency comparisons should be done at iso wattage, else what's the point lol. The 13900ks at same wattage as the 13900k is indeed faster and therefore more efficient. Facts.

 

[Vulture]

Question for everyone: Considering the current processors' enormous power consumption, if the new generation of processors maintained the same performance but reduced power consumption by 50%, would you consider it a successful product worth purchasing? Or do they need to significantly increase performance for you to consider them?

 

[Bencher]

Question for everyone: Considering the current processors' enormous power consumption, if the new generation of processors maintained the same performance but reduced power consumption by 50%, would you consider it a successful product worth purchasing? Or do they need to significantly increase performance for you to consider them?

No, since you can already reduce power by 50% on the current 13900k and lose 10% performance, that would make your hypothetical 14900k just 10% faster than the 13900k. Not a huge jump.

33k score at 125 watts

Spoiler

What needs to be done is to bring back gaming efficiency down to alderlakes levels. That's it. On everything else they already have the crown.

 

[Vulture]

Mods - please stop him trolling. The 13900KS, at stock, is more power hungry than the 13900k, this is a simple fact confirmed by multiple reviewers:

The block function is a powerful feature, I have done it, you should try it too, it will make your forum much cleaner. And we agree on the power consumption, it is enormous, and if Intel manages to significantly reduce it without compromising performance, it would be a tremendous success worthy of releasing a new series. Currently, they are simply non-competitive, and even the dead platform doesn't work in their favor (I don't consider refreshes with 5% better performance and 40% higher power consumption as a sign of platform vitality).

 

[Bencher]

The block function is a powerful feature, I have done it, you should try it too, it will make your forum much cleaner. And we agree on the power consumption, it is enormous, and if Intel manages to significantly reduce it without compromising performance, it would be a tremendous success worthy of releasing a new series. Currently, they are simply non-competitive, and even the dead platform doesn't work in their favor (I don't consider refreshes with 5% better performance and 40% higher power consumption as a sign of platform vitality).

From the chart posted above, the power consumption difference between a 7950x and a 13900k is...uhm....8%, while the 7950x is actually a tad bit slower according to the same review. Yeap, enormous difference


In fact, the 7950x was actually way less efficient than the cpu it replaced, the 5950x. AMD had to double the power draw in order to compete, going from 125w on the 5950x all the way up to 255 watts on the 7950x


Intel are curbstomping on everything but gaming efficiency. And a huge advantage that your CPU won't go up in flames, helps with the longevity of the platform

 

[Dave2150]

The block function is a powerful feature, I have done it, you should try it too, it will make your forum much cleaner. And we agree on the power consumption, it is enormous, and if Intel manages to significantly reduce it without compromising performance, it would be a tremendous success worthy of releasing a new series. Currently, they are simply non-competitive, and even the dead platform doesn't work in their favor (I don't consider refreshes with 5% better performance and 40% higher power consumption as a sign of platform vitality).

Problem with the ignore feature is that you can't see threads started by those you ignore. So if they create a "big" thread, like for a GPU generation/CPU generation, you literally can't see the thread.

I think it better to wait for mods to take appropriate action, it can't be long as Bencher refuses to compare stock vs stock. At stock, the 13900k and KS consume enormous amounts of power. Raptor Lake refresh may further increase this, which would be completely ridiculous.

 

[Bencher]

At stock, the 13900k and KS consume enormous amounts of power. Raptor Lake refresh may further increase this, which would be completely ridiculous.

The graph you posted shows the 13900k consuming 8% more power than the 7950x, while being a little bit faster on cbr23. If you consider 8% enormous...oh boy.


With that said, technotice tested stock vs stock, 13th gen walked all over zen 4 in both performance and efficiency in CC applications.

 

[Vulture]

Problem with the ignore feature is that you can't see threads started by those you ignore. So if they create a "big" thread, like for a GPU generation/CPU generation, you literally can't see the thread.

I think it better to wait for mods to take appropriate action, it can't be long as Bencher refuses to compare stock vs stock. At stock, the 13900k and KS consume enormous amounts of power. Raptor Lake refresh may further increase this, which would be completely ridiculous.

You block less important individuals who are mainly there for trolling; such individuals do not initiate topics.

 

[jigger]

As the colleague above mentioned, the benefits of DLVR will disappear at such a high clock speed. They have reached the limit, and there is no technology that can significantly reduce it. Perhaps a drastic leap in the production process could make a difference, but that won't happen with this generation. We will have to wait for Arrow Lake for significant changes.

Intel could push the Atom core count to 24. The Skylake side seem suck a 8c unless Intel reduce the IPC. A 24e 8p chip would be a hell of a lot of silicon for
Intel to use on desktop parts. I think rinse and repeat with the occasional product rage quit is the name of the game for Intel until 18a.

That said Intel’s recent increased R&D spending isn’t filling me with confidence for its new designs aligning with the 18a node release, plus mobile and more importantly server must come first.

 

[jigger]

Question for everyone: Considering the current processors' enormous power consumption, if the new generation of processors maintained the same performance but reduced power consumption by 50%, would you consider it a successful product worth purchasing? Or do they need to significantly increase performance for you to consider them?

If Intel could ship a chip like that 6-12 months ago and Intel motherboard prices reflected the relatively short lifespan, then yes that would have been pretty compelling. 6-12 months from now then no, probably not.

I’m assuming you are talking about desktop parts.

Intel has no capability to build a chip with 50% less power without taking a huge performance penalty.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel's 40-core Arrow Lake CPU (8P + 32E) rumoured to be on shaky ground - and may not turn up until 2025

Intel's 40-core Arrow Lake CPU rumored to be on shaky ground - and may not turn up until 2025

If it arrives at all, because the latest from the grapevine on Twitter is that Intel is struggling with the processor, and may abandon it yet.

www.tweaktown.com

Not good news if this delay is true. Raptor Lake refresh is very likely to be the most worthless refresh we've seen for decades. The 13900KS already has monstrously high power consumption, the main way for a refresh (without new architecture, process) to achieve more performance is binning for higher frequency.

500W for 14900k perhaps? 13900KS already consumes over 400W, with out of the box settings on popular motherboards (all limits removed). This until Arrow Lake in 2025? Very worrying.

 

[jigger]

Intel's 40-core Arrow Lake CPU (8P + 32E) rumoured to be on shaky ground - and may not turn up until 2025

Intel's 40-core Arrow Lake CPU rumored to be on shaky ground - and may not turn up until 2025

If it arrives at all, because the latest from the grapevine on Twitter is that Intel is struggling with the processor, and may abandon it yet.

www.tweaktown.com

Not good news if this delay is true. Raptor Lake refresh is very likely to be the most worthless refresh we've seen for decades. The 13900KS already has monstrously high power consumption, the main way for a refresh (without new architecture, process) to achieve more performance is binning for higher frequency.

500W for 14900k perhaps? 13900KS already consumes over 400W, with out of the box settings on popular motherboards (all limits removed). This until Arrow Lake in 2025? Very worrying.

Skylake+Atom was always going to be the situation for Intel post Rocket lake. Producing new products from two ancient architectures cobbled together with the hope of each offsetting the other’s short comings was always an undesirable option for Intel.

Intel isn’t going to right itself by 2025 as that date has already slipped and it’s the server and mobile parts that come first. Desktop parts will have to wait longer still. 2027 is questionable.

Intels strategy is to attempt to make up ground on AMD with Xeon and Ponte Vecchio, but that is not going to be easy and likely Intel will only slow AMD’s rate of growth. Some people in the industry don’t think AMD can be caught at all, and Intels medium-long term future could be to continue operating in areas where AMD remains supply constrained.

 

[Grim5]

Pc gaming is in a lul. It's looks like no next next Gen GPUs till 2025 so maybe no next Gen CPUs till 2025 either

Market is over supplied with old and current Gen parts, cost of living is killing discretionary spending and many countries are flouting with a recession. That makes companies not want to launch new products anytime soon. Anything that does launch will be very minor improvements over current stuff to keep cost down, with no real next Gen products coming for the next two years

 

[jigger]

Pc gaming is in a lul. It's looks like no next next Gen GPUs till 2025 so maybe no next Gen CPUs till 2025 either

Market is over supplied with old and current Gen parts, cost of living is killing discretionary spending and many countries are flouting with a recession. That makes companies not want to launch new products anytime soon. Anything that does launch will be very minor improvements over current stuff to keep cost down, with no real next Gen products coming for the next two years

I’m 100% sure Intel would love to be able to execute like AMD, but Intel first needs to deal with its node and manufacturing issues and then come up with a new design to release.

The financial issues in world right now are transient and short term. It would be very short sighted to let a downturn dictate your design strategy when you are a major chip manufacturer like Intel or AMD.

 

[Vulture]

Intel's 40-core Arrow Lake CPU (8P + 32E) rumoured to be on shaky ground - and may not turn up until 2025

Intel's 40-core Arrow Lake CPU rumored to be on shaky ground - and may not turn up until 2025

If it arrives at all, because the latest from the grapevine on Twitter is that Intel is struggling with the processor, and may abandon it yet.

www.tweaktown.com

Not good news if this delay is true. Raptor Lake refresh is very likely to be the most worthless refresh we've seen for decades. The 13900KS already has monstrously high power consumption, the main way for a refresh (without new architecture, process) to achieve more performance is binning for higher frequency.

500W for 14900k perhaps? 13900KS already consumes over 400W, with out of the box settings on popular motherboards (all limits removed). This until Arrow Lake in 2025? Very worrying.

Yes, Intel will be in a very tricky position if that's true, even worse off than in the Zen 3 era, especially now that energy efficiency is in focus due to rising energy costs, etc. AMD will have a vastly superior product in every aspect and will be able to further highlight its low power consumption. Additionally, it's highly likely that Zen 5 will be released in 2024.

 

[Dave2150]

Pc gaming is in a lul. It's looks like no next next Gen GPUs till 2025 so maybe no next Gen CPUs till 2025 either

Market is over supplied with old and current Gen parts, cost of living is killing discretionary spending and many countries are flouting with a recession. That makes companies not want to launch new products anytime soon. Anything that does launch will be very minor improvements over current stuff to keep cost down, with no real next Gen products coming for the next two years

PC gaming is amazing for me, plenty of excellent games that fully utilize my 4090. I've played through A Plague Tale: Requiem, Cyberpunk, Resident Evil (remake) 2-4, Elden Ring and now Diablo. All look superb in 4k HDR on my LG OLED. Also have many others lined up ready to get into.

Had my 4090 since release day on October 13th. For the amount of entertainment it's got me, it's was a great buy. Look forward to 5080/5090 next year, or possibly 2025.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel confirms Arrow Lake-S & Lunar Lake CPUs will support instructions for AVX-VNNI, SHA512, SM3, SM4 and LAM​

Intel confirms Arrow Lake-S & Lunar Lake CPUs will support instructions for AVX-VNNI, SHA512, SM3, SM4 and LAM - VideoCardz.com

Intel Arrow Lake-S appears in instruction set reference guide Intel has just updated its “Architecture Instruction Set Extensions and Future Features” last month, which confirms what instructions will be supported by upcoming processors. The guide confirms that both series will support a range...

videocardz.com

The guide confirms that both series will support a range of instructions, including AVX-VNNI-INT16, SHA512, SM3, and SM4 focusing on AI workloads and hashing functions.

The inclusion of AVX-VNNI in the Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake CPUs is particularly noteworthy. This instruction set extension enhances the performance of neural network inference workloads by providing a specialized capability for 8-bit and 16-bit integer operations. This means that applications utilizing artificial intelligence, machine learning, and deep learning algorithms can expect a boost in processing speed and efficiency.

The Arrow/Lunar Lake family also appears alongside Sierra Forest and Grand Ridge with support for Intel Linear Address Masking (LAM) instructions. It allows software to make use of untranslated address bits of 64-bit linear addresses for metadata.

No AVX-512 seems strange to me, wonder if/when Intel will reintroduce this to mainstream. Probably when their TDP is under control.

 

[Vulture]

Intel confirms Arrow Lake-S & Lunar Lake CPUs will support instructions for AVX-VNNI, SHA512, SM3, SM4 and LAM​

Intel confirms Arrow Lake-S & Lunar Lake CPUs will support instructions for AVX-VNNI, SHA512, SM3, SM4 and LAM - VideoCardz.com

Intel Arrow Lake-S appears in instruction set reference guide Intel has just updated its “Architecture Instruction Set Extensions and Future Features” last month, which confirms what instructions will be supported by upcoming processors. The guide confirms that both series will support a range...

videocardz.com

No AVX-512 seems strange to me, wonder if/when Intel will reintroduce this to mainstream. Probably when their TDP is under control.

There is a lot of discussion about instructions and A.I, and we know it's a hot topic. AMD already has an A.I accelerator in the Zen 4 Phoenix series, and in Zen 5, they will further deepen and enhance its integration. What I'm particularly interested in is gaming performance, IPC, and so on. How will Arrow Lake compare to the third generation of 3D cache, which will have significant changes compared to the slightly modified second generation in Zen 4? TSMC has developed the third generation of 3D cache using the 5nm process, and it is expected to offer even better bandwidth and lower latency due to improvements in the 3D cache itself, as well as architectural changes in Zen 5, and so on.

 

[jigger]

Intel confirms Arrow Lake-S & Lunar Lake CPUs will support instructions for AVX-VNNI, SHA512, SM3, SM4 and LAM​

Intel confirms Arrow Lake-S & Lunar Lake CPUs will support instructions for AVX-VNNI, SHA512, SM3, SM4 and LAM - VideoCardz.com

Intel Arrow Lake-S appears in instruction set reference guide Intel has just updated its “Architecture Instruction Set Extensions and Future Features” last month, which confirms what instructions will be supported by upcoming processors. The guide confirms that both series will support a range...

videocardz.com

No AVX-512 seems strange to me, wonder if/when Intel will reintroduce this to mainstream. Probably when their TDP is under control.

It’s because Intels future isn’t cobbling together Skylake and Atom cores. Why focus anything more than absolute minimal resources on a product that is a lost cause?

Google Intel Ponte Vecchio. Or look at Intel accelerators. The firms direction is pretty clear.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

Jigger, I know you love to peddle out the Skylake + Atom line, but maybe time to give it a rest? Or does every Intel thread need to see this?

I guess it's not super surprising to see the lack of AVX512 on these, but a bit disappointing.
I never bothered updating the BIOS on my board, so it still supports it. I can't say anything I use at the moment benefits from it, although RPSC3 seems to see good gains.