14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

jigger · 4 Jul 2023 at 10:53

Emlyn_Dewar said:
Jigger, I know you love to peddle out the Skylake + Atom line, but maybe time to give it a rest? Or does every Intel thread need to see this?

I guess it's not super surprising to see the lack of AVX512 on these, but a bit disappointing.
I never bothered updating the BIOS on my board, so it still supports it. I can't say anything I use at the moment benefits from it, although RPSC3 seems to see good gains.

Emlyn, What are Intel currently naming its P and E cores?

Jay-G25 · 4 Jul 2023 at 19:45

MLID is quoting up to 6.2Ghz for RPL-R with a 4-8% ST & 8 - 15% MT uplift

Grim5 · 4 Jul 2023 at 21:30

Why such large MT increase without more cores. Significantly higher all cores clocks?

Vulture · 4 Jul 2023 at 21:44

Grim5 said:
Why such large MT increase without more cores. Significantly higher all cores clocks?

I can't wait to see the power consumption in such mode of operation, lol

.

Armageus · 4 Jul 2023 at 22:17

Grim5 said:
Why such large MT increase without more cores. Significantly higher all cores clocks?

Because it's MLID rubbish - quote a load of figures and something will be right. If it's not then just pretend he never said it

Jay-G25 · 4 Jul 2023 at 23:05

Grim5 said:
Why such large MT increase without more cores. Significantly higher all cores clocks?

yep seems any additional performance increase will come from higher core clocks only as no ipc increase by the look of it and same core counts ( similar uplift to an overclocked KS ? ) . Possibly 6Ghz all core as stock with a 1 sec blip under light loads to 6.2Ghz , Power draw and heat will be interesting if they don't do anything to reign it in as it is :confused:

Emlyn_Dewar · 5 Jul 2023 at 01:19

jigger said:
Emlyn, What are Intel currently naming its P and E cores?

Do you think they are currently referring to their P cores as Skylake?

ade64 · 5 Jul 2023 at 18:05

that new intel voltage regulator or whatever it is must be amazing to allow such high core clocks, does seem like it will be very hard to cool properly though. can hardly keep my 13700k cool with a arctic freezer ii 360

RSR · 5 Jul 2023 at 19:55

Jay-G25 said:
yep seems any additional performance increase will come from higher core clocks only as no ipc increase by the look of it and same core counts ( similar uplift to an overclocked KS ? ) . Possibly 6Ghz all core as stock with a 1 sec blip under light loads to 6.2Ghz , Power draw and heat will be interesting if they don't do anything to reign it in as it is

Hmmm it needs to be better than that, as I can already run games on my 13900K at 6.1 Ghz

SpartaP · 5 Jul 2023 at 22:33

Jay-G25 said:
yep seems any additional performance increase will come from higher core clocks only as no ipc increase by the look of it and same core counts ( similar uplift to an overclocked KS ? ) . Possibly 6Ghz all core as stock with a 1 sec blip under light loads to 6.2Ghz , Power draw and heat will be interesting if they don't do anything to reign it in as it is

Chances are they probably haven't done anything to rein it in.... it's going to be interesting lol

Jay-G25 · 5 Jul 2023 at 22:49

RSR said:
Hmmm it needs to be better than that, as I can already run games on my 13900K at 6.1 Ghz

See that's the thing for people like yourself its probably gonna offer up very little in terms of performance uplift , you would expect them to have a better IMC so hopefully 10K on ram is easily achievable ( board dependant ) and if they implement dlvr should do what you are at now clock wise albeit at a lower power draw ( 133w isn't that bad @ 6.1Ghz tbh imo ) but worth an upgrade :confused:

.... if you have a golden sample 13900k/KS like yourself then probably not imo although as you went from a K to a KS we can safely assume this will be a day one purchase for you

My 13900K is average at best ( SP100 ) so i will be interested in what extra the 14900k brings just keeping my expectations in line to not be disappointed come release :cry:

Jay-G25 · 5 Jul 2023 at 22:53

SpartaP said:
Chances are they probably haven't done anything to rein it in.... it's going to be interesting lol

If DLVR is actually working this time i would expect similar power draw to what we have now but at higher core clocks but power shouldn't go over what a 13900k is . I plan to delid / DD mine same as i have with my 13900k but obviously not an option for everyone .

RSR · 6 Jul 2023 at 09:32

Jay-G25 said:
See that's the thing for people like yourself its probably gonna offer up very little in terms of performance uplift , you would expect them to have a better IMC so hopefully 10K on ram is easily achievable ( board dependant ) and if they implement dlvr should do what you are at now clock wise albeit at a lower power draw ( 133w isn't that bad @ 6.1Ghz tbh imo ) but worth an upgrade .... if you have a golden sample 13900k/KS like yourself then probably not imo although as you went from a K to a KS we can safely assume this will be a day one purchase for you My 13900K is average at best ( SP100 ) so i will be interested in what extra the 14900k brings just keeping my expectations in line to not be disappointed come release

My 13900K is a SP P120 (SP108) and my 13900KS is a SP P122 (SP114)

10K on the ram is unlikely, the new CPUs do support CKD so you may see 9000 but that will be limited to the Apex/Dark.

Im not expecting a lot with these new refreshes tbh.

Vulture · 6 Jul 2023 at 12:28

RSR said:
My 13900K is a SP P120 (SP108) and my 13900KS is a SP P122 (SP114)

10K on the ram is unlikely, the new CPUs do support CKD so you may see 9000 but that will be limited to the Apex/Dark.

Im not expecting a lot with these new refreshes tbh.

I expect a significant increase in... energy consumption

Freddie1980 · 6 Jul 2023 at 13:25

Grim5 said:
Why such large MT increase without more cores. Significantly higher all cores clocks?

Time will tell but an educated guess would be Intel are giving it a higher power budget.

It's remarkable how far Intel have really fallen from grace, back in the 90's and 00's they were industry leaders for process node innovation and churned out new CPU's and designs like clockwork but now their fallen behind the Chinese and their CPU's are revised models of existing chips clocked to an inch of it's life.

Dave2150 · 6 Jul 2023 at 14:34

Freddie1980 said:
Time will tell but an educated guess would be Intel are giving it a higher power budget.

It's remarkable how far Intel have really fallen from grace, back in the 90's and 00's they were industry leaders for process node innovation and churned out new CPU's and designs like clockwork but now their fallen behind the Chinese and their CPU's are revised models of existing chips clocked to an inch of it's life.

Will be very interesting to see what will happen once Intel start making the flagship CPU's on TSMC's latest node. Arrow Lake CPU tiles are rumoured to be TSMC 3nm after all.

I assume we'll then have both AMD Zen5 and Arrow Lake both on TSMC 3nm - sharing the same process for the first time in decades. AMD have been used to always having a process advantage; will Intel match power efficiency once this is no longer the case?

Robert896r1 · 6 Jul 2023 at 15:19

Higher ram speeds will need new ic’s. We will have to see the timing on those.

Jay-G25 · 6 Jul 2023 at 16:05

RSR said:
My 13900K is a SP P120 (SP108) and my 13900KS is a SP P122 (SP114)

10K on the ram is unlikely, the new CPUs do support CKD so you may see 9000 but that will be limited to the Apex/Dark.

Im not expecting a lot with these new refreshes tbh.

I would be happy with either of those chips tbh :cry:

Mine is SP 100 overall with P-core at 109 and E-Core at 83 & 72 MC so pretty much bang in the middle according to igor lab report on 13900k SP binning he done , it happily does 5.7Ghz / 4.6Ghz and 7600Mhz if needed..... 6.1Ghz all core is a no go though which is why i am interested in the new refresh and what it can do. Maybe they will do 8000Mhz easily with 9000Mhz being obtainable by good chips and the best stretch to 10k... also the higher speeds may only be achievable on the new Z790 boards ( they need an excuse to sell them after all ! :cry:

).

Dave2150 · 6 Jul 2023 at 16:22

Jay-G25 said:
I would be happy with either of those chips tbh Mine is SP 100 overall with P-core at 109 and E-Core at 83 & 72 MC so pretty much bang in the middle according to igor lab report on 13900k SP binning he done , it happily does 5.7Ghz / 4.6Ghz and 7600Mhz if needed..... 6.1Ghz all core is a no go though which is why i am interested in the new refresh and what it can do. Maybe they will do 8000Mhz easily with 9000Mhz being obtainable by good chips and the best stretch to 10k... also the higher speeds may only be achievable on the new Z790 boards ( they need an excuse to sell them after all ! ).

Difference between 6600Mhz and 8000Mhz etc is less than 1% in most games. Only really worth it if you enjoy memory benchmarking/records etc.

jigger · 6 Jul 2023 at 16:56

Dave2150 said:
Will be very interesting to see what will happen once Intel start making the flagship CPU's on TSMC's latest node. Arrow Lake CPU tiles are rumoured to be TSMC 3nm after all.

I assume we'll then have both AMD Zen5 and Arrow Lake both on TSMC 3nm - sharing the same process for the first time in decades. AMD have been used to always having a process advantage; will Intel match power efficiency once this is no longer the case?

I think it’s Ponte Vecchio at TSMC and low end chips with IGP. Raja set that in stone.

I don’t think AMD have had a node advantage over Intel since AMD Dresden. It’s pretty much impossible to beat Intel’s production volume.