14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Joxeon]

If Zen 5 ends up a 24 core, which it probably will, Intel will tag on 4X as many half cores as they have full cores, which is ridiculous, its like gluing eight i5 6600 together and then gluing that to eight of thier actually 2020's level performance cores, they would be doing that so they don't get left behind in the MT benchmarks.

Why does it matter so long as it works at giving better MT performance?

What games or other programs currently require more than 8 fast cores that won't benefit from small cores?

 

[Joxeon]

Is Zen 4 not going to have more cache and higher frequencies. Was it not reported that Zen 4 will have a =40% pefor4mance gain in MT apps, i dont see 8 little cores eating to much into that. Also i think the >15% performance for ST apps was based on a cinebench score and not a selection of use case scenarios.

I have also seen reports that say Intel are running behind schedule with Raptor Lake and that it may not launch till December or even January. Also AM5 will be around for a fair few generations, its already been confirmed Raptor Lake will be the last for thsi current Intel Socket. Meteor Lake for desktop is also rumoured to be late FYI

While 40% for zen 4 looks good on paper you have to remember a lot of those gains will be from the increased power limits, if you take a 5950X and compare stock 142w R23 scores at around 24500 to a 4.7 all core pulling 240w scoring 31500 then you're already looking at gains of almost 30%.

Remember that the 12900k is already 15% faster in MT than a stock 5950X so Intel will need to bring a gain of a further 20% by adding small cores and improving the big cores with RPL to have a MT lead.

 

[Dave2150]

Another new socket!

Intel LGA-1851 socket for desktop Intel Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake has been leaked​

Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-l...el-meteor-lake-and-arrow-lake-has-been-leaked

The LGA-1851 measures 45 × 37.5 mm which is the same as LGA1700/1800 for Alder/Raptor Lake series. Therefore, one could assume that cooler compatibility will be preserved.

According to the slide leaked by the site, the only dimensions that have changed is the IHS (integrated heat spreader) height. From 6.73-7.4mm to 6.83-7.49. This is not a massive change though, but it may require new compatibility fasteners or more attention when installing the coolers. The taller package may be a result of Meteor Lake desktop series using Intel’s new tiled architecture, based on Foveros packaging technology. This is not the case with monolithic desktop Alder Lake/Raptor Lake CPUs.

The slide lists ARL before MTL-S, possibly suggesting that Arrow Lake arrives before Meteor Lake. Therefore, Arrow Lake-S could be a successor to Raptor Lake. Intel has not been sharing too much information on Arrow Lake series, whereas Meteor Lake silicon has been shown in multiple variants already.

 

[uscool]

Dont know why get excited for new sockets dont get much time between them and dont you feel screwed over for someone that jumps on every socket . i.e rocket lake

could assume that cooler compatibility will be preserved ???

AM4 Coolers will work on AM5 dont need to do anything extra and having long socket support as an consumer this is what I prefer not to be changing socket every 1-2 CPU release and feel screwed over

 

[Mesai]

Dont know why get excited for new sockets dont get much time between them and dont you feel screwed over for someone that jumps on every socket . i.e rocket lake

could assume that cooler compatibility will be preserved ???

AM4 Coolers will work on AM5 dont need to do anything extra and having long socket support as an consumer this is what I prefer not to be changing socket every 1-2 CPU release and feel screwed over

Aside from screwing over the consumer, it’s an acknowledgement of a flawed architecture, whereas AMD have a solid foundation and confidence in their roadmap.

 

[uscool]

Yeah with the feature set and lanes etc on AM5 you can tell they have long support planned for it , even in the AMD interview he said that and had dig at Intel changing every 1-2 cpu releases

 

[Vulture]

Why does it matter so long as it works at giving better MT performance?

What games or other programs currently require more than 8 fast cores that won't benefit from small cores?

Games that can utilize more than 8 cores will have regression because as soon as it needs to access from big to small cores there will be latency. It would be better to just create all big cores so less work for developers, no regression, incompability etc, and each big core is much more powerful than bunch of those e cores.

 

[Minstadave]

Games that can utilize more than 8 cores will have regression because as soon as it needs to access from big to small cores there will be latency. It would be better to just create all big cores so less work for developers, no regression, incompability etc, and each big core is much more powerful than bunch of those e cores.

Absolutely but Intel can't do it without massive power use and heat output. Once they start glueing together cores they might be competitive again but up until then they're just bodging.

 

[Vulture]

Absolutely but Intel can't do it without massive power use and heat output. Once they start glueing together cores they might be competitive again but up until then they're just bodging.

Meteor Lake will use chiplet design, now they have opportunity to delete those e-craps and focus on big cores only.

 

[Joxeon]

Meteor Lake will use chiplet design, now they have opportunity to delete those e-craps and focus on big cores only.

Isnt AMD rumoured to be moving towards Ecores with Zen 5?

 

[Vulture]

Isnt AMD rumoured to be moving towards Ecores with Zen 5?

Rumors, just as Zen 4 april release day, and 25%+ IPC increase. If leakers can't predict Zen 4, i doubt they can predict anything from Zen 5, AMD is really good at keeping secrets.

 

[Bencher]

Absolutely but Intel can't do it without massive power use and heat output.

Why not? What does that even mean? It really doesn't make sense. If Intel adds 8 more P cores they obviously won't be running at 4.9 ghz all core clockspeeds, just like the 5950x doesn't get the same clockspeeds as the 5800x in all core workloads. Heat and power is not an issue, at ALL. It's a completely braindead argument. Especially considering Golden Cove are ridiculously efficient in lower clockspeeds. I can score 15k+ score on my 12900k using 33 watts, making it basically the most efficient cpu on planet Earth, lol

 

[Minstadave]

Why not? What does that even mean? It really doesn't make sense. If Intel adds 8 more P cores they obviously won't be running at 4.9 ghz all core clockspeeds, just like the 5950x doesn't get the same clockspeeds as the 5800x in all core workloads. Heat and power is not an issue, at ALL. It's a completely braindead argument. Especially considering Golden Cove are ridiculously efficient in lower clockspeeds. I can score 15k+ score on my 12900k using 33 watts, making it basically the most efficient cpu on planet Earth, lol

So where is Intels 12th Gen or 13th Gen with 16 performance cores then? Why resort to efficiency cores at all?

Heat and power is not an issue but the 12900k will do nearly 250W under MT load? They'd have to sacrifice a shedload of clock speed on a 16C part.

 

[Bencher]

So where is Intels 12th Gen or 13th Gen with 16 performance cores then? Why resort to efficiency cores at all?

Cause adding more P cores is useless. E cores perform better per amount of die space. Who and why would choose a 10 + 0 configuration over an 8+8 when the 2nd is faster in MT performance and just about equal in ST performance. It doesn't make sense

E core aren't efficient either, not in terms of heat or power. They are efficient in die space. But they do consume more watts at same frequency per work done. So your theory is just completely wrong, P cores would be better in terms of heat and power.

 

[Vulture]

Bencher is back, Dave's right hand for more hardcore trolling .

 

[Bencher]

Bencher is back, Dave's right hand for more hardcore trolling .

Very productive non trolling post you made there. In the thread of a CPU youll never buy anyways Yeah...

 

[Vulture]

Very productive non trolling post you made there. In the thread of a CPU youll never buy anyways Yeah...

Using alt account is everything but productive, and against the rules. And why do you think i won't buy it?

 

[Bencher]

Using alt account is everything but productive, and against the rules. And why do you think i won't buy it?

Using an alt account? Wtf are you talking about again?

We both know you won't buy it, cause you are an amd fanboy.

 

[Vulture]

Using an alt account? Wtf are you talking about again?

We both know you won't buy it, cause you are an amd fanboy.

I have 3 intel cpu-s at home, how many you have? Fanboy? it is relative, i will buy meteor lake if it is better than AMD at that moment, no problem with that, i can fanboy anything, and buy different brand product, pc component won't define me or change my behavior, just because you are Intel fanboy and you see everything as black and white, or 0 and 1 it doesn't mean others function like that. That's the beauty of free market, you can buy anything, and you can hype anything too, even something you won't buy.

 

[Bencher]

I have 3 intel cpu-s at home, how many you have? Fanboy? it is relative, i will buy meteor lake if it is better than AMD at that moment, no problem with that, i can fanboy anything, and buy different brand product, pc component won't define me or change my behavior, just because you are Intel fanboy and you see everything as black and white, or 0 and 1 it doesn't mean others function like that. That's the beauty of free market, you can buy anything, and you can hype anything too, even something you won't buy.

I have more Zen CPUS than you can dream off, does it matter? Anyways, id rather ignore you, too far gone to even talk to.