1930s Semi Refurb - Part 11 of ... (Summer House)

dlockers said:
Hands are mashed because of CTS. My comment about mashed hands from screws is mainly from spax floorboard screws. If you Google them, they're threaded bottom and top not middle. So I found myself holding middle, but as soon as you screw your basically holding the top thread. Gloves fix it obvs. I'm just being dramatic.
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Little/shallow pilot hole would mean you don't have to hold the screw surely?
 
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danlightbulb said:
Yeah but those old timers were skilled.

This will be my first stud framed construction.

Whacking two nails per joist top and bottom sounds like it should a lot easier than screwing. But then they start to bend obviously and it turns into a nightmare.
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Nails are also much harder to remove after you realise you made a mistake or the wood moves etc
 
Just to show that my recommendation for structural screws is not idiotic.....

www.youtube.com

SDWC Truss Screw — The Simple New Way for Truss, Stud and Top Plate Connections

The Simpson Strong-Tie SDWC Truss Screw provides a truss and rafter-to-top plate connection as well as a method to fasten studs to top or bottom plates. The ...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

or maybe this one will help you decide

www.youtube.com

FastenMaster TimberLOK vs. Hurricane Ties: Strength Showdown

Discover the Ultimate Showdown: FastenMaster TimberLOK vs. Hurricane Ties! When it comes to securing truss and rafter connections with unparalleled stre...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

now if you think spending £1 on a screw expensive, yet think 3k on a set of doors is ok......then your thinking is a bit backward
 
jpaul said:
it's not like he hasn't used screws elsewhere ... just didn't come up on the radar for this build and so used clips
I'd subsequently read this https://dxf82wtg340bb.cloudfront.net/resources/SPAX_Truss-Rafter_Screw_MAR21.pdf
but if you already have top of the line gun, would need to check your torque driver was adequate with comments from that pdf.
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NO - he called incorrectly strapping the roof using structural screws made and rated for the job, because he hasnt got a clue what he's doing. hes even used a single top plate, when the structure calls for a double and left hinge points to the sides of the door openings by not using a double top plate and covering up the joints in the timbers, which makes it structurally stronger when using huge bi-fold doors
 
Most decent screws nowadays have a sharpened point so a little pressure will mean they hold where you put them anyway

I thought my accountants hands were soft* but never had issues with screws, but maybe those manicures lockers has keep his baby soft ;)

*actually lots of allotmenting mean they arent that soft really
 
@Welshman appreciate you're intentions are in the best interest, but it's getting a bit repetitive and borderline spammy - so can you lay off it please?
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Most decent screws nowadays have a sharpened point so a little pressure will mean they hold where you put them anyway

I thought my accountants hands were soft* but never had issues with screws, but maybe those manicures lockers has keep his baby soft ;)

*actually lots of allotmenting mean they arent that soft really
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It's those bladdy spax floorboard screws with serated edges. I'm into edge cases of nice to have tbh I'm not that much of a pansy to not like screws. Just given the choice on a project like this it's a no brainer in terms of time saving.
 
Sorry that things have got a bit heated here, however I appreciate having seen multiple methods to tie down the roof as this was the part I was most unsure about.

I find fixings a minefield in general. Its nice to see what alternatives are available for different applications and its also useful to have exact specs for things. Too often the advice is to use nails or screws but with no specification of length and width dimensions.


@dlockers I was watching the Oakwood Garden Rooms build last night, where he does it solo and with only basic tools. Very useful series. I think their 'build packs' are very expensive though (now £130) for what is essentially a parts list but did you find it useful? I noticed he intended to use a nail gun but forgot it early in the series so proceeded without, by separating the nail gun nails and using them by hand. I would not have known that could be done.

Thinking about hand nailing in combination with a screw to pull the joint tight first. Its only 4 nails per upright, two top, two bottom which on a 16 stud segment will only be 64 nails. Obviously plus a few extra here and there, but certainly not many really.
 
danlightbulb said:
Sorry that things have got a bit heated here, however I appreciate having seen multiple methods to tie down the roof as this was the part I was most unsure about.

I find fixings a minefield in general. Its nice to see what alternatives are available for different applications and its also useful to have exact specs for things. Too often the advice is to use nails or screws but with no specification of length and width dimensions.


@dlockers I was watching the Oakwood Garden Rooms build last night, where he does it solo and with only basic tools. Very useful series. I think their 'build packs' are very expensive though (now £130) for what is essentially a parts list but did you find it useful? I noticed he intended to use a nail gun but forgot it early in the series so proceeded without, by separating the nail gun nails and using them by hand. I would not have known that could be done.

Thinking about hand nailing in combination with a screw to pull the joint tight first. Its only 4 nails per upright, two top, two bottom which on a 16 stud segment will only be 64 nails. Obviously plus a few extra here and there, but certainly not many really.
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Just be mindful this chap recommending screws has not built anythin like this, and is preaching guidance from American house builders who talk about 'following code'. None of his examples are UK garden rooms. A strap is still the preferred method as it's impossible to fail, and judging by some of his comments they tend to required a roof joist to align with a stud. Read some of the comments on the videos he shared and you'll see lots of folks saying the inspectors don't care what the screw company says, they want it tied down with a strap (10 nails at 90 degrees vs. a screw perpendicular to the force).

Also he is quoting Americans with pitched roofs where they use single joists (not double like a 3.5m span requires) and line up with the studs to carry the load to the floor. This would give you inefficient spacing on a double joist setup. Also, double top plate is to build a house not a garden room. In a structure like this it'll just create a cold bridge unnecessarily. In fact my professionally made 13m x 3m pitched roof workshop only has a single top plate.

The build packs are worth it if you don't want to waste time planning materials. I essentially sent his kit list to my merchant and it arrived. I didn't think twice about quantities. It also included some extra nuggets on specific dimensions and rod spacing but with hindsight is all pretty easy to work out yourself. If doing it again I'd possibly back myself now, but given I took a week off work to squeeze it in, I didn't want to chance any errors that'd take days to rectify.

When he stripped those nails - that was a bit of bodge. He'd just forgotten his actual nails so was scavenging some. I wouldn't recommend it - like you said, they are a fraction of the thickness and unless you're a dab hand at hitting straight, you've got no chance.

I used a few 100mm screws when framing if the frame was too twisted for my strength to hold it tight. You don't need to screw unless you have the same issue. Screwing and nailing everyone is overkill.
 
dlockers said:
Just be mindful this chap recommending screws has not built anythin like this, and is preaching guidance from American house builders who talk about 'following code'. None of his examples are UK garden rooms. A strap is still the preferred method as it's impossible to fail, and judging by some of his comments they tend to required a roof joist to align with a stud. Read some of the comments on the videos he shared and you'll see lots of folks saying the inspectors don't care what the screw company says, they want it tied down with a strap (10 nails at 90 degrees vs. a screw perpendicular to the force).

Also he is quoting Americans with pitched roofs where they use single joists (not double like a 3.5m span requires) and line up with the studs to carry the load to the floor. This would give you inefficient spacing on a double joist setup. Also, double top plate is to build a house not a garden room. In a structure like this it'll just create a cold bridge unnecessarily. In fact my professionally made 13m x 3m pitched roof workshop only has a single top plate.

The build packs are worth it if you don't want to waste time planning materials. I essentially sent his kit list to my merchant and it arrived. I didn't think twice about quantities. It also included some extra nuggets on specific dimensions and rod spacing but with hindsight is all pretty easy to work out yourself. If doing it again I'd possibly back myself now, but given I took a week off work to squeeze it in, I didn't want to chance any errors that'd take days to rectify.

When he stripped those nails - that was a bit of bodge. He'd just forgotten his actual nails so was scavenging some. I wouldn't recommend it - like you said, they are a fraction of the thickness and unless you're a dab hand at hitting straight, you've got no chance.

I used a few 100mm screws when framing if the frame was too twisted for my strength to hold it tight. You don't need to screw unless you have the same issue. Screwing and nailing everyone is overkill.
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yes i have built these structures....dont assume something you dont know. as for quoting american, its timber framing, its the same all over the world, its not rocket science and your not inventing something new.
 
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