Poll: 2008 Brazilian GP - Race 18/18

[sunama]

Massa's Improvement
One thing that hasnt been said so far is that Massa seems to have upped his game significantly this year.

When the regulations changed, most people on this board, for some reason, had great faith as if like a pheonix rising from the flames, Button was somehow going to move through the field. However, I had my doubts as I knew he was in F1 to pick up his pay-cheque and sleep with as many fake blondes as possible. But one thing I did agree on was that Massa would struggle without driving aids. How wrong we all were.

In 2008, Massa messed up the first GP of the season by spinning all by himself - indicative of his reliance on the now defunct driving aids. But as the season wore on, he learnt how to drive the new car, while his illustrious and highly paid team-mate, just looked ordinary. Whenever he was on Pole position he would invariably win the race without making any mistakes. He did this time after time after time in 2009, something Hamilton did in China and everybody hailed it as one of his best drives. I find it strange that when Massa does the same thing, people say that he can only win races from Pole, yet when Hamilton did it, it is classed as one of his best drives ever.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that given that Massa appears to be steadily improving, there is no reason, that, providing his car is good, he could well be the most likely driver to win the title next year.

Predictions
Its very very early, but I think the top 3 will be:
1. Alonso (Renault should make a good car. As long as his car isnt too far behind McLaren and Ferrari, he should win the title).
2. Massa (I think he will finish ahead of Hamilton, as he is steadily improving, year on year. We havent seen the best of him yet. Furthermore, if Ferrari back Massa over Kimi, earlier in the season, then it should boost Massa's points total. Massa's big problem is that his team-mate will take points away from him - a problem that Alonso, nor Hamilton will have. In 2009, I think Hamilton and Massa will finish on almost identical points, like in 2008).
3. Hamilton (He will improve, but his problem is that Massa will, too and while Alonso won't improve, his car will).

 

[FrankJH]

I guess its time to make up random garbage now huh

 

[NathanE]

I don't think Massa has improved much at all. He spun on the first corner of the first race by virtue of his throttle control. He rammed DC when trying to recover. He spun into the gravel trap at Malaysia was it? Monaco he was leading and pretty much threw it away by out braking himself and going into an escape road. Silverstone he infamously spun 5 times. He rammed Hamilton at Fuji. Did a dodgy overtake on Webber at Fuji. Rammed Bourdais at Fuji.

He certainly hasn't lost his ability to win races though. But to do that he needs to start from pole AND have the car underneath him AND not lose concentration.

Massa has been made to look good because Ferrari threw their weight behind him after Kimi dropped off mid season.

He seems to soak up pressure quite well. For instance he won the all important race at Brazil without a single error. That was his home race and the title decider. But when that pressure is removed he seems to lack focus and the determination to not make any mistakes.

 

[utajoker]

i think it will be a close run thing again.

i think massa doing what he has will give kimi a kick up the backside and he will become the stronger of the two again.

with hamilton winning this year, he has his first world title and i think he will settle and be less likely to make mistakes.

if alonsos car will be anything like the end of this year then he will be in a fight with massa for 3rd and hopefully vettel and kubica.

i still think the main fight will between 2 and 3rd place battled for by 3 or 4.

hopefully hondas car will be atleast able to challenge for points.

my predictions anyway.

 

[Housey]

 

[Alex UK]

That's brilliant.

 

[Overlag]

Massa's Improvement
He did this time after time after time in 2008 (edit), something Hamilton did in China and everybody hailed it as one of his best drives. I find it strange that when Massa does the same thing, people say that he can only win races from Pole, yet when Hamilton did it, it is classed as one of his best drives ever.

nicely said....

I guess its time to make up random garbage now huh

who's making garbage up?

 

[Clarkey]

LMAO That was one of the funniest things i've ever seen, ITV are such genius's for broadcasting that live

 

[FrankJH]

who's making garbage up?

the whole "factual" post above stunk to high heaven

more from fantasy land than anything based on the track

 

[Mad_Jay]

McLaren team boss Ron Dennis, left, presents 2008 Formula One World champion Lewis Hamilton, with a model of a McLaren F1 LM super car, during a news conference at the McLaren Technology Centre at Woking, England, Wednesday Nov. 5, 2008. McLaren's Lewis Hamilton became the youngest world champion in Formula One history after a thrilling Brazilian Grand Prix, and has been promised that if he wins three world championships, he will be given a real F1 LM - one of only five made.(AP Photo/Alastair Grant)

 

[sunama]

I don't think Massa has improved much at all. He spun on the first corner of the first race by virtue of his throttle control.

Which, if TC was allowed, wouldve prevented the spin. Yes or no?

He spun into the gravel trap at Malaysia was it?

Yep. This was race2 and was part of the slow learning curve. The improvements happened as the season progressed.

Monaco he was leading and pretty much threw it away by out braking himself and going into an escape road.

He did make a mistake, but then so did the Hamilton, who right now, is the best driver in the wet.

He still finished in 3rd, which is fine for someone who is not very good in the wet.

Silverstone he infamously spun 5 times.

Yep. Another wet race. I'm sure he himself will admit that he is not very good in the wet. Its no big secret. Later on in Brazil, he showed that in damp conditions, he had learnt to hold his own.

He rammed Hamilton at Fuji.
Did a dodgy overtake on Webber at Fuji.
Rammed Bourdais at Fuji.

All these were racing incidents.

His overtake on Hamilton was aggressive and had Hamilton been in the same position, he probably wouldve done exactly the same.

The overtake on Webber was fine. He is competing for the title and Webber was in the way. Webber should've moved out of the way. Had it been Senna or MS coming through, Webber would probably have given more room.

He didnt ram Bourdais. I think he pressed Bourdais hard, forcing Bourdais to press Massa back. Bizzarrely, Bourdais was penalised. Any championship contender is entitled to drive aggressively. Senna, Prost, MS, Hamilton have all driven aggressively in the past.

He certainly hasn't lost his ability to win races though. But to do that he needs to start from pole AND have the car underneath him AND not lose concentration.

On a dry track, he generally doesnt lose concentration. The problems happen when it starts to rain and he knows that Hamilton will almost certainly come steaming through. Although, it must be said that when it rained in the last race, he held his own, which might be an indication that his ability in the wet has now improved (we need to see more wet races to be certain).

Massa has been made to look good because Ferrari threw their weight behind him after Kimi dropped off mid season.

Hamilton got McLaren's full weight.
Alonso got Renault's full weight.
And Massa got Ferrari's full weight (in the later part of the season).

All the top guys get their team's full backing. They win titles because of the team's support.

He seems to soak up pressure quite well. For instance he won the all important race at Brazil without a single error.

I believe he did this because he was steadily improving throughout the season. By definition, his final race of the season, should be his best. And I feel it was.

But when that pressure is removed he seems to lack focus and the determination to not make any mistakes.

He started performing well, after the first 2 races, after he started getting used to driving without aids. The 3rd race was a dry race, which he won.

I feel he improved steadily throughout the season (and has continued to do so over the past few years), with his major problem being wet-weather driving, which I feel he has improved on and also driving from the back of the field and coming through to a strong finish (the jury's still out). His strongest race performances are when he gets pole. This still remains the case.

 

[sunama]

the whole "factual" post above stunk to high heaven

In future I shall base my predictions on fact. I shall do this by time-travelling into the future, checking the race results, travelling back in time and then posting my predictions (based on factual race results), on this forum.

 

[philjohn]

Although, it must be said that when it rained in the last race, he held his own, which might be an indication that his ability in the wet has now improved (we need to see more wet races to be certain).

I think that says more about him knowing Interlagos very well than improved wet-weather racing.

 

[chrisd]

I guess its time to make up random garbage now huh

Yeah how dare he make up his own opinions

 

[xen_]

That .gif is too funny!

 

[englishpremier]

Lol at someone thinging Hamilton is the best driver in the wet.

Alonso, Vettel and Barrichello are better wet weather drivers imo.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Just thinking, were there any races when we really got to see Massa and Hamilton properly racing each other directly?
Having to overtake and defend against each other. I can think of various other combinations of drivers, but can't think of a race this year when they have been against each other (I've missed 2-3 races this season so may have just missed the above)

 

[Masterdog]

Japan had Massa and Hamilton going at it. Not that the result was particularly spectacular for either driver.

 

[Alibaba99]

Massa's Improvement
One thing that hasnt been said so far is that Massa seems to have upped his game significantly this year.

In 2008, Massa messed up the first GP of the season by spinning all by himself - indicative of his reliance on the now defunct driving aids. But as the season wore on, he learnt how to drive the new car, while his illustrious and highly paid team-mate, just looked ordinary. Whenever he was on Pole position he would invariably win the race without making any mistakes. He did this time after time after time in 2009, something Hamilton did in China and everybody hailed it as one of his best drives. I find it strange that when Massa does the same thing, people say that he can only win races from Pole, yet when Hamilton did it, it is classed as one of his best drives ever.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that given that Massa appears to be steadily improving, there is no reason, that, providing his car is good, he could well be the most likely driver to win the title next year.

However Massa, so far, hasn't won anything from other than the front row and when you are driving the best car on the grid that counts. Lewis, Kimi and Ferdi have all won races, on merit, from other positions on the grid.

 

[Alibaba99]

Just thinking, were there any races when we really got to see Massa and Hamilton properly racing each other directly?
Having to overtake and defend against each other. I can think of various other combinations of drivers, but can't think of a race this year when they have been against each other (I've missed 2-3 races this season so may have just missed the above)

Hockenheim. Lewis had to pit from the lead and came back in third. Made short work of Massa then Nelson Piquet.