You should stop listening to the little voices telling you there is a conspiracy when there is none. Raikkonen got more points than Hamilton even though Hamiltons engineer (but not honest Ron if we believe what he says) knew exactly when Raikkonen was going to make his pit stops for god knows how many races at the start of the season. For everything that happened last season swap the words Mclaren and Ferrari around and you would not be saying anything about the FIA helping Mclaren.
2008 Canadian Grand Prix - Race 7/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
- Start date
You should stop listening to the little voices telling you there is a conspiracy when there is none. Raikkonen got more points than Hamilton even though Hamiltons engineer (but not honest Ron if we believe what he says) knew exactly when Raikkonen was going to make his pit stops for god knows how many races at the start of the season. For everything that happened last season swap the words Mclaren and Ferrari around and you would not be saying anything about the FIA helping Mclaren.
Your point at first sounds logical, until you consider that some teams would take longer to pit and therefore probably get out of sync during refuelling/tyre changes. What happened if one had to change a nose cone - would the others have to wait and reform at some point?!? Be extremely difficult if the pit lane exit was closed and impossible if its open...
TBH its a stupid point after you consider it
...When we refer to racing in the pit lane you still are speed limited and all the pit crews shouldnt be anywhere near the lanes (expect for the lollipop man). The risk would be identical to as if they werent under the SC...
EDIT: Bah Im months late
ps3ud0
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but they all lived in the same caravan
And were sharing the same PAYG mobile but all witholding their number
When did BMW declare Kubica their No 1 driver? Got a link at all?
I know hes doing well so far this season (well deserved) and Heidfield isnt doing himself any favours, but he outscored Kubica last season at this point of the season last year (after 7 races Heidfield had double the points Kubica had).
I very much doubt theres any team orders at BMW and the main reason Kubica was released was that he had the faster car at that time due to much lower fuel load than Heidfield - BMW wanted to maximise their chances in the race, rather than hand Kubica the victory as you imply...
You need to stop providing opinion and attempting to state it as a fact
ps3ud0
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68181
Nope, the only thing you destroyed you arrogant little **** was the back of Kimi's car.
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Heidfeld would not have made the decision to "release" his team mate, by himself This would almost certainly have come over the radio, unless, it had been discussed and agreed before the race, in private.
Never would one driver, who is truly competitive, "release" another driver. Do you think Hamilton, would've "released" Alonso, last year? Do you think Heidfeld would let Kubica through so easily, given that a first race win was at stake? I certainly wouldnt, unless I received a strict order that if I didnt follow would have serious consequences. If I'm fighting for my first race win, then any other driver will have to fight tooth and nail to overtake me - no way would I give way so easily.
By definition, if someone on your radio instructs/orders you to allow your team mate to overtake you without a competitive fight/overtaking move, you are following team orders.
BMW know that their best chance of winning a title this year is with Kubica. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to work this out. This being the case, it makes perfect sense to ensure that Kubica should win the race, in order to lead the WDC and place him in the best possible position to do battle with Kimi, Massa and Hamilton. The worst thing that BMW can do is allow Heidfeld to take points away from Kubica, and Kubica lose the title by 1pt.
You would either have to be an idiot or a McLaren strategist, to not order Heidfeld to let Kubica through.
You havent really answered my original point - how does that make Kubica their no 1 driver now? Im sorry, but please dont try and infer that one decision in one race is indicative of their whole driver strategy for the remainder of the season...
Unfortunately Im nowhere near a brain surgeon so please elaborate your point...
EDIT: Just to remind you that at the same point last season Heidfield was around the same points difference ahead of Kubica and at no point did BMW declare or play to team orders for the remainder of that season.
The facts are pretty plain - Heidfield was fat on fuel and didnt need to pit, while Kubica wasnt and still had to pit sometime during the race. Its an easy decision to make by the team but it doesnt infer anything regards their relative positions within the team...
ps3ud0
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Nope, the only thing you destroyed you arrogant little **** was the back of Kimi's car.
Well, he has to talk up his chances and be confident going into the next round.
Its good to see he is prepared to fight hard and isnt getting disheartened by his obvious pit-lane weaknesses. Its very rare that we have a British sportsman who wants to win so badly. Normally, they are prepared to stand back and let others win, as they feel it the gentlemanly thing to do. Hamilton has more of a German attitude - that "he is the best" and it is his God given right, to expect others to believe in his superior ability. Even when he is in the wrong, he will believe that he is in the right. A lot of top sportsman have this attitude.
He is certainly the most gifted driver currently in F1, but he is prone to making errors - especially in the pit-lane and around Alonso. Hopefully, he will learn from them.
I would've thought that on a British forum there would be overwhelming support for Hamilton, just as you would expect support for Alonso, on a Spanish forum. But perhaps, it is Hamilton's will to win, which at times, can be unfair, that does not endear him to the British public.
He is the BMW driver that they believe is most likely to win the WDC. Hence, he has now become their No.1 driver and BMW are likely to put more resources behind him than Heidfeld. This is expected and is a tactic used by most teams. Dont ever believe it when you hear that a team is supporting both drivers equally.
When you are asking 1 driver to pull aside for another driver and are putting more resources behind him, its pretty obvious that he is their No.1.
Last year, Kubica was settling into the team and this year he has clearly stepped it up. Perhaps you are a Heidfeld fan and dont want to hear anything against Heidfeld, but the fact remains that Kubica is clearly the driver who is likely to score more points. This is obvious to me and is certainly obvious to BMW, inferring from their actions in the last GP.
True. But what if Heidfeld was in a position to win a race AND lead the WDC if he did win the race. Kubica wouldve been asked to give way to Heidfeld.
Remember, only McLaren strategists shoot themselves in the foot and allow Ferrari to win titles. Other teams, stay united and do whats best for the team and give themselves the best possible chance to win titles.
BMW absolutely did the right thing.
Soldato
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I like him.
I love like you said above his will to win.
Sure being nice does get you some where like Mansel but like schumacher has shown determination and building a team around you will get you ultimate domination for a multiple of years.
My friend though hates him becuase he says hes had his racing career giving to him on a plater.
Along with hes big headed, copies schumachers celerbration and cocky. Is that word allowed?
I don't really understand why he thinks that but oh well.
I love like you said above his will to win.
Sure being nice does get you some where like Mansel but like schumacher has shown determination and building a team around you will get you ultimate domination for a multiple of years.
My friend though hates him becuase he says hes had his racing career giving to him on a plater.
Along with hes big headed, copies schumachers celerbration and cocky. Is that word allowed?
I don't really understand why he thinks that but oh well.
I have to admit sunama you really are blinkered by an opinion that you dont share - Ive attempted to provide plain facts and experiences of what BMW have done in the past to provide what my expectation is for the future (at no point have BMW favoured either driver in the past)...
I just think your inferences for the remainder of the season are unfounded and until I actually see BMW state Kubica as their team leader, I just think you are taking a massive leap of faith.
Ignoring the present drivers standings, if my team mate behind me was 2nd and needed a further pit stop while I was ahead of him not needing a pit stop, I cant see any other decision than me allowing him through via a team request to maximise the result. Thats a race strategy but doesnt form a season strategy on a single incident...
I would be surprised if BMW did it any other way if Heidfield had been behind Kubica in a similar situation, with the driver standings as they were...
Having a brief look at the net and the comments by Mario Theissen I cant find anyone else that shares your viewpoint (but perhaps they arent as forward thinking as yourself)
. Again what actions outside of this one race lead you to that inference?
EDIT: Sorry about the re-edit
ps3ud0
I just think your inferences for the remainder of the season are unfounded and until I actually see BMW state Kubica as their team leader, I just think you are taking a massive leap of faith.
Ignoring the present drivers standings, if my team mate behind me was 2nd and needed a further pit stop while I was ahead of him not needing a pit stop, I cant see any other decision than me allowing him through via a team request to maximise the result. Thats a race strategy but doesnt form a season strategy on a single incident...
I would be surprised if BMW did it any other way if Heidfield had been behind Kubica in a similar situation, with the driver standings as they were...
Having a brief look at the net and the comments by Mario Theissen I cant find anyone else that shares your viewpoint (but perhaps they arent as forward thinking as yourself
)You have a source for that?
When has BMW stated they are giving him more resources than Heidfield?
Just because I dont share your views doesnt mean Im a Heidfield fan, just someone who can play devils advocate and look at it from both points of view
. Again what actions outside of this one race lead you to that inference?EDIT: Sorry about the re-edit
ps3ud0
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I like him.
I love like you said above his will to win.
Sure being nice does get you some where like Mansel but like schumacher has shown determination and building a team around you will get you ultimate domination for a multiple of years.
I like Hamilton, too. At least it gives us Brits someone to cheer. I hate watching non-Brits giving dire performances, race after race and its great to see a driver who is prepared to put his neck on the line.
My friend though hates him becuase he says hes had his racing career giving to him on a plater.
Along with hes big headed, copies schumachers celerbration and cocky. Is that word allowed?
He is definitely cocky. After Alonso left, he got a massive ego boost, as he was probably told by McLaren that he would now lead the team, unhindered. Not bad for only your 2nd year.
Also he was making comments in the media as to who his team mate would be for next year; almost sugesting that he was the one who was making the decision.
He has an overwhelming belief in himself and his ability, even when he is wrong (just like Senna and MS).
Even though Mansell was not cocky, he remains my favourite driver of all time. That dude just wanted to be the fastest all the time - even when it didnt really count. Sometimes, he would go faster, just for the heck of it.
They did so at Canada, by ordering Heifeld to move over.
And that is why you would never be a top class driver. You simply dont have the ruthless will to win that is required. We have seen it in MS, Senna, Prost, Alonso and now in Hamilton. None of these guys would allow anyone past if a race win was at stake, let alone a first-race win.
In fact thinking about it, an engineer wouldnt even dare tell Senna to let someone through. Senna wouldve got seriously p'd off at such an order. MS and rest would simply ignore it. Of course lesser drivers, like Heidfeld, have no choice but to fall in line.
Later on in this season, if the roles are reversed and Heidfeld is waved past by Kubica, I will eat my words, but until then, I stand by my opinion on his subject.
...just someone who can play devils adovate and look at it from both points of view
And thats the beauty of an internet forum where we can all share our views and debate various things - no matter how minor or insignificant they may be.