Curse them, if only they never gave Massa a penalty then he would be leading and their job nearly done......
2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
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Curse them, if only they never gave Massa a penalty then he would be leading and their job nearly done......
Lol. You have been talking about some real odd stuff lately stig, but that last comment deserves a lol
Soldato
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was going to post the same myself. I can't recall anyone being given a penalty in the past for driving someone off the track.
Soldato
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Raikkonen when he drove Hamilton off the track at Spa oh wait...
WTF - why do people keep saying this rubbish?
Its natural seeing as Ferrari are racing Mclaren that any decision against Mclaren will benefit Ferrari
Even though I support the red cars - I hope BMW are Mclarens main challangers next year or even Renault. Will you then change the title from Ferrari International Assistance (FIA) to BMW International Assistance (BIA) or Renault International Assistance (RIA) what utter tosh
The problem all season has not been Ferrari its dopey stewards making riduclous calls and handing out stupid penalties.
Hey but what do I know
Agreed, but to be honest there should be. Why should a competitive driver who has speed and can make corners be comprimised by other drivers losing control of their car, blocking the competitive ones and causing potential accidents.
This is similar to the Montoya/Schumacher incident in 2001 in Austria.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=liBhETp8IGA
I do hope the FIA clarify the rule on this.
Eh? Lewis had a 6 second lead which was then lost when the safety car came out.
I have no idea what radio transmissions went on. I have however driven down many pitlanes in a racing situation and it is sometimes very easy to have tunnel vision. Rosberg (another top F1 driver) also hit Lewis.
You could say that Hamilton drove Massa off the track here. But that depends on your perspective (see above pic).
Soldato
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How so? no one forced Massa to cut across the track and plough strait into the side of him.
True but before the pitstop. KR was gaining on Kubica and Hamilton at a rate of half a second or more a lap, he was held up by Kubica on a lap or two before the SC came out. It was very similar in Singapore when suddently KR found speed and was gaining on Hamilton at a tremendous rate.
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Okay, fair enough. I can accept that he missed the red lights. And I can even accept that he didn't spot that the cars were stopped until it was a bit late (since he didn't see the light, he wouldn't be looking for stationary cars necessarily). But post-race, the team said that they had warned him on the radio and he didn't heed this warning. Now, come on - not seeing is one thing in the heat of battle, but when you're being told over the radio that you should probably be getting onto the brakes sort-of nowish because you might be about to have a teensy bit of a collision....
Same goes for Rosberg. His team must have been warning him as well, and to not heed that....they both got off lightly IMO.
If you see the replay, as they come out of the corner, Hamilton didnt leave much space on his left side.
Massas front right tapped Hamiltons rear left and the rest is history.
If Hamilton actually left a bit more room on his left side (i.e. as he came out he should have stayed on the right side of the track), he probably would have made the corner. But he didnt because he knew that if he did, Massa would probably take him on.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Lis5-BRjAjI
Check it out at 0:31 and 0:40
Hamilton tries to close the door on Massa but Massa isnt going to yield his position so easily and thats why Hamilton got the bump because he closed the door on a defiant Massa.
In my opinion, Massa should have just braked and battle on at another turn. And its a shame because if Massa knew that Hamilton would be pitting, Im sure Massa would not have been as aggressive as that.
Having watched the start of the race again, I've now come to a couple of conclusions that only confuse me further.
1. What did hamilton think he was doing, trying to get in front? After speaking all week about level headedness etc, he then goes and tries a stupid stunt like that. He deserved to have to pit after the first lap for a new nose cone at least. It's crazy stunts like that, that will cost him championship after championship, and as such, I'm not sure that we can say that he deserves to win this year either.
2. The penalty for "forcing" KR off the track is laughable. Both LH and KR were both ontrack when the incident was over, only for HK to then take the space that KR was going for. If anyone should have been penalised for forcing KR off the track, then it was HK.
3. The penalty for Bourdais is of astounding levels of ineptness by the stewards. They were racing for position, when Massa decides that he must be in front and turns in on him. His own fault, and nobody deserved to be punished as Massa had already lost time as a result.
4. After all the events above, how come there was no investigation into Massa's pass on Webber? With all four tyres off the track (over the white line and actually in the red area marked out as a dangerous area), it was a dangerous and needless move that could easily have resulting in a serious incident had a car been coming out of the pits at the same moment. Why didn't he just move to the left instead, he obviously had mroe than enough pace to take Webber anyway? He clearly took an advantage from going off-track, so why was this not investigated?
Anyway, with the issues that we've seen this year from both of the front runners, I'm left pondering whether the better/more deserving racer isn't Kubica...
1. What did hamilton think he was doing, trying to get in front? After speaking all week about level headedness etc, he then goes and tries a stupid stunt like that. He deserved to have to pit after the first lap for a new nose cone at least. It's crazy stunts like that, that will cost him championship after championship, and as such, I'm not sure that we can say that he deserves to win this year either.
2. The penalty for "forcing" KR off the track is laughable. Both LH and KR were both ontrack when the incident was over, only for HK to then take the space that KR was going for. If anyone should have been penalised for forcing KR off the track, then it was HK.
3. The penalty for Bourdais is of astounding levels of ineptness by the stewards. They were racing for position, when Massa decides that he must be in front and turns in on him. His own fault, and nobody deserved to be punished as Massa had already lost time as a result.
4. After all the events above, how come there was no investigation into Massa's pass on Webber? With all four tyres off the track (over the white line and actually in the red area marked out as a dangerous area), it was a dangerous and needless move that could easily have resulting in a serious incident had a car been coming out of the pits at the same moment. Why didn't he just move to the left instead, he obviously had mroe than enough pace to take Webber anyway? He clearly took an advantage from going off-track, so why was this not investigated?
Anyway, with the issues that we've seen this year from both of the front runners, I'm left pondering whether the better/more deserving racer isn't Kubica...
Welcome to my world. Unfortunately we arent able to have this opinion without some narrow minded fools shouting us down for being bias or Ferrari haters. Aparently you must idolise a single driver and team to be considered a 'proper' fan. Supporting the sport and worryignabout the overall effect just doesnt cut it.
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Massa shouldnt have been trying to get passed Hamilton by cutting the track no matter what the outcome was, had he got passed Hamilton without contact that would have been easily grounds for a penaulty for gaining a possition by cutting the track, but as its massa there wouldnt have been a penaulty anyway, either way Hamilton was going to be the looser no matter what.
Soldato
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mmm, these are racing drivers so they are going to brake as late as possible to try to keep the position and take the corner. Montoya looks like he just lost the car under him ( I'd say similar to the way Kimi lost it in monaco). Sometimes you can brake where you would normally expect the car to stop for the corner and the car will do something unexpected.
Dunno, it just seems to me the stewards are penalising you for racing.
One more quick one - what happened to that Renault power deficit? We get to the track with a mile long frappin' straight....and a Renault car wins.
Did the FIA relent on their engine homologation and allow them to go find some extra power?
Did the FIA relent on their engine homologation and allow them to go find some extra power?
I knew you were going to say this.
1. Go back to Monza this year. Turn 4/5 is a chicane. MANY drivers (Hamilton included were cutting the chicane and putting all 4 tyres inside the chicane i.e. not on track, and can be compared to todays incident, so I think this point is moot.
2. Refering to your above statement, I dont know what to say except that Massa did get penalised for it, so I think thats that!
I think Renault has been developing their engine this year ever since they realised that's what was holding them back.
And after the engine failures they had early in the season it would be easy to push the changes through the FIA...
And after the engine failures they had early in the season it would be easy to push the changes through the FIA...