2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18

[El_Watcher]

2. Refering to your above statement, I dont know what to say except that Massa did get penalised for it, so I think thats that!

But did e get penalised for it, or was it the fact that he cause an avoidable accident?

People are saying how hot headed Hamilton is, and how mature Massa has become, but have a look at how many times each of them could have been penalised for breaking rules:

Hamilton
1) first corner pushing Raikonen wide (if that is technically his doing or HK)

Massa
1) cutting the corner
2) causing an avoidable incident
3) going off the track to overtake Webber
4) was the Bourdais incident his fault (causing another avoidable incident)

 

[mmj_uk]

Curse them, if only they never gave Massa a penalty then he would be leading and their job nearly done......

They can't make it too obvious else even the blinded Tofosi will come to the realization that F1 is decided as much off the track as it is on it.

Massa got the penalty he deserved, what's strange is that they also decided to penalise Hamilton for some nonsense reason as if to nullify Massa's penalty...

Like Skeeter has said some of the decisions in recent years have been a joke and it's no secret to any neutral fan that Ferrari tend to come out of them most favourably.

 

[Cavallino]

F2009

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jW0fHcfb-L4/R2vE51tMbLI/AAAAAAAAA8c/pYYVEvBHcXU/s1600/ferrari_segway.jpg

Problem is, it would still win

 

[Cavallino]

Also I think its funny Massa has denied Raikkonen the fastest laps record today
Reckon Massa will still get help from Raikkonen ?

 

[JRS]

Like Skeeter has said some of the decisions in recent years have been a joke and it's no secret to any neutral fan that Ferrari tend to come out of them most favourably.

Well, **** - they've been fighting at the top since 1997 (aside from the '05 blip), so it's not desperately surprising that a decision going against another top team is going to benefit Ferrari is it?

I still say the FIA are more anti-McLaren than pro-Ferrari, simply because there is rather more evidence of the former than the latter (and there's quite a lot of the latter depending on your interpretation!). And I still think that if Ferrari were having another 2005 (or even an early '90s) and it was another team fighting with McLaren, we'd still see Hamilton get penalised.

 

[Mad_Jay]

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/CHXX0116?from=36hr_topnav_business

*whistles*

 

[El_Watcher]

I still say the FIA are more anti-McLaren than pro-Ferrari, simply because there is rather more evidence of the former than the latter (and there's quite a lot of the latter depending on your interpretation!). And I still think that if Ferrari were having another 2005 (or even an early '90s) and it was another team fighting with McLaren, we'd still see Hamilton get penalised.

That can depend on what side you are on I suppose, but why then did Ferrari gain from the Bourdais decision, and why did the stewards not even investigate the fact Massa overtook Webber off the track?
Two decisions in one race that had nothing to do with Mclaren, and everything to do with Ferrari.

 

[El_Watcher]

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/CHXX0116?from=36hr_topnav_business

*whistles*

If that is true and happens it would improve Mclarens chances.

 

[Cavallino]

That can depend on what side you are on I suppose, but why then did Ferrari gain from the Bourdais decision, and why did the stewards not even investigate the fact Massa overtook Webber off the track?
Two decisions in one race that had nothing to do with Mclaren, and everything to do with Ferrari.

Then why give a drive thru to Massa if what your saying is true?

Also dont forget there is another driver that benefited from Bourdais' penalty. That would be Mark Weber.

 

[Cavallino]

If that is true and happens it would improve Mclarens chances.

It was supposed to rain in Fuji. Infact, this time last week the report for Fuji was 60% rain, but as the week went by it changed.
Also note in the morning its 40% chance of rain.

Besides, China should be Hamiltons race and Brazil Massa's.
Just a question of who finishes second and third assuming aforementioned drivers finished first in each of those races.

Me personally, despite thinking that LH is rattled, if he can learn from the lessons of the past, he could take this championship.

 

[Skeeter]

One more quick one - what happened to that Renault power deficit? We get to the track with a mile long frappin' straight....and a Renault car wins.

Did the FIA relent on their engine homologation and allow them to go find some extra power?

In a word, yes.

And its extended to allow all the slower teams to develop their engines to the McLaren/Farrai benchmark for next season.

The Force India/McLaren-Mercedes deal could be a good one, as at the moment from the info I have Force India are not using the same engine as Torro Rosso and the Ferraris, but a slower less developed one based on an older model number. Force India with a full spec Merc engine would be good for them.

 

[Cavallino]

In a word, yes.

And its extended to allow all the slower teams to develop their engines to the McLaren/Farrai benchmark for next season.

The Force India/McLaren-Mercedes deal could be a good one, as at the moment from the info I have Force India are not using the same engine as Torro Rosso and the Ferraris, but a slower less developed one based on an older model number. Force India with a full spec Merc engine would be good for them.

Ironic that such a deal is being announced at the same race that Mclaren suffer their first engine failure

(It is the first isnt it?)

 

[Skeeter]

Ironic that such a deal is being announced at the same race that Mclaren suffer their first engine failure

(It is the first isnt it?)

This season im sure... cant remember the most recent. But has it even been confirmed as an engine failure?

 

[ps3ud0]

It's the most logical option though... if you outbrake yourself going into a tight corner like that you would just take the escape road That way he would have avoided the incident and penalty altogether and he would have scored loads more points because LH was pitting anyway from the flat spotted tyres.

I wasn't trying to defend LH. Just pointing out that Massa *did* have an escape road option but decided not to use it.

But who said he outbraked himself - looking at that replay its obvious that he wasnt on the racing line and knowing Lewis was on the inside of the corner wasnt able to turn in when he wanted. He had to aply a bit of opposite lock when applying the power but theres no indication he had any issues about braking other than probably given Lewis too much room into the chicane...

ps3ud0

 

[El_Watcher]

Then why give a drive thru to Massa if what your saying is true?

They gave Massa a drive through for either cutting the corner or causing a accident with Hamilton. What you quoted was talking about the way Massa overtook Webber on the start finish straight whilst outside of the white lines which designate the track. As someone else mentioned, if someone was coming out of the pits at that time, Massa would have hit them at a closing speed of about 100mph, which could have killed both of them.

 

[Anders0n]

You've gotta laugh at the Bourdais penalty, could they possibly make it any more obvious?

 

[Cavallino]

This season im sure... cant remember the most recent. But has it even been confirmed as an engine failure?

Supposedly.

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/170409-0/kovalainen_rues_win_that_got_away_at_fuji.html

 

[Skeeter]

They gave Massa a drive through for either cutting the corner or causing a accident with Hamilton. What you quoted was talking about the way Massa overtook Webber on the start finish straight whilst outside of the white lines which designate the track. As someone else mentioned, if someone was coming out of the pits at that time, Massa would have hit them at a closing speed of about 100mph, which could have killed both of them.

As has already been proved this year, Massa driving dangerously but not actually causing an incident doesnt get punnished.

 

[Cavallino]

You've gotta laugh at the Bourdais penalty, could they possibly make it any more obvious?

That they are trying to give Red Bull Racing an advantage?

 

[Cavallino]

As has already been proved this year, Massa driving dangerously but not actually causing an incident doesnt get punnished.

Sorry which other incident was this ? (I genuinely cant remember lol).
If this is Valencia/Singapore and the pits, then you cant blame Massa for that since it was the team that released him into the path of Sutil.