That they are trying to give Red Bull Racing an advantage?
That was unavoidable. The benifit to the Ferrari of Massa and the Ferrari powered Vettel outweighed the downside of benifiting the rival Webber.
2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
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That was unavoidable. The benifit to the Ferrari of Massa and the Ferrari powered Vettel outweighed the downside of benifiting the rival Webber.
The stewards are ruining formula one. It's simple as that. You can't have any sort of collision without them poking their noses in and giving someone a penalty. Tbh, they're making up the bloody rules as they go long. Hamilton's penalty was quite frankly ridiculous. Ok, we know he can't handle being behind anyone else without instantly trying to barge his way past, but people outbrake themselves all the time, and he did pretty well not to slam into anyone imo.
Massa's a prat, too. He really should have waited for a chance at Hamilton later on, as opposed to swiping him off the track. Yes, I did punch the air with joy and probably wake up half the street when Hamilton was facing the wrong way, but hey
Massa's a prat, too. He really should have waited for a chance at Hamilton later on, as opposed to swiping him off the track. Yes, I did punch the air with joy and probably wake up half the street when Hamilton was facing the wrong way, but hey
A very good point. JA picked up on it when it happend and MB imediatly shot him down, but i thought it was definatly worth looking into. now as i understand it the kerbing areas are outside the track, as in outside of the white lines defineing the race track, PM definatly seemed to use that area when overtakeing MW with only 2 laps to go.
Now the question is did he leave the track and in doing so gain advantage when passing MW.
personally I think this image shows that he didnt, he was never completly outside of the white lines marking the edge of the track.
But I do agree it was a very close call.
Yeah both those incidents. Your right though, it wasnt his fault, but still, Massa or Ferrari being dangerous doesnt get punished.
Yes he did, in Singapore.
What a load of bull - I remember that incident and unfortunately where Kimi needed be able to brake heavily, he couldnt due to the bumps at the exit of the tunnel making his car 'light' and so effectively spearheading into Sutil . Rain also didnt help...
Apology
I agree with the remainder of the sentiment...
ps3ud0
A very good point. JA picked up on it when it happend and MB imediatly shot him down, but i thought it was definatly worth looking into. now as i understand it the kerbing areas are outside the track, as in outside of the white lines defineing the race track, PM definatly seemed to use that area when overtakeing MW with only 2 laps to go.
Now the question is did he leave the track and in doing so gain advantage when passing MW.
personally I think this image shows that he didnt, he was never completly outside of the white lines marking the edge of the track.
But I do agree it was a very close call.
The red hatching area is a no go regardless!
Well surely by penalising a Ferrari engine customer team would mean that there is no foul play?
Heaven forbid FIA penalising anything with a Ferrari logo inside it
?
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I remember in the past similar incidents occuring where the driver goes over such area on the main straight and no penalties ensued.
I cant remember which races it was but I think one involved Montoya another involved Schumacher and another Hakkinen.
So really I think you guys are looking too much into the Weber/Massa incident.
Besides how many times have people overtaken using parts outside of the track? (e.g. Hockenheim at the hairpin - there is quite a long run off area to accelerate onto back on the track).
Soldato
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So why did they penalise Hamilton at Spa for overtaking outside of the track, if you say many people do it at many tracks, and don't get penalised.
Plus you say we are looking too much into the Massa/Webber, I say the stewars are looking too much into the Hamilton/Raikonen and Massa/Bourdais incidents.
Ferrari seem to be able to have it both ways, funny that.
Youve taken my argument out of context.
The Hamilton incident was not on the pit straight. Im talking about incidents in the past that took place on the pitstraight (i.e. crossing over the white line into the pit exit area/chevron area etc).
Actually in some of these races in the past, Brundle/Allen never even gave it a second thought, just as it was dismissed as quickly today.
This is where Im coming from.
Now if you were to include the argument about cutting chicanes or going off track and what not, then yes you have a point.
That they are trying to give Red Bull Racing an advantage?
They gave the advantage to Massa in the end.
.............
personally I think this image shows that he didnt, he was never completly outside of the white lines marking the edge of the track.
But I do agree it was a very close call.
But what about if you take still from before that point in time? The red area will be wider beyond the car and thus the white lines be further apart. As the car is a set width there is a possibility the car was outside the line completely.
http://sportshocks.blogspot.com/2008/10/video-f1-fuji-gp-2008-highlights-japan.html
Proof. Goto 3:25ish.
You can see that Massa takes the inside and still has 2 tyres on the track and 2 outside (i.e. outside the white line)
But you can see Weber all the while squeezing Massa further and further right. Massa has nowhere to go.
This is incident is very reminiscint of Weber and Hamilton in Monza when Hamilton squeezed Weber all the way over to the spectator side of the track (left side if onboard camera). The difference being that there was no run off area in Monza on the side of the track.
Proof. Goto 3:25ish.
You can see that Massa takes the inside and still has 2 tyres on the track and 2 outside (i.e. outside the white line)
But you can see Weber all the while squeezing Massa further and further right. Massa has nowhere to go.
This is incident is very reminiscint of Weber and Hamilton in Monza when Hamilton squeezed Weber all the way over to the spectator side of the track (left side if onboard camera). The difference being that there was no run off area in Monza on the side of the track.
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http://sportshocks.blogspot.com/2008/10/video-f1-fuji-gp-2008-highlights-japan.html
Watch that video and go towards 3:20. I dunno what webber thought he was doing. He was on a one stopper with his tyres long dead. Massa was making 2 seconds a lap on him whith around 10 laps left. Massa had him with speed by a big margine on the straight going into turn one. Yet Webber nearly trys to put massa into the pit wall at 190+mph. Infact if you watch the video you can see webber also drives into the pit lane. Then beyond all belief he decides to turn into massa. You can see it clear as day.
You are looking to much into Webber. Webber was lucky not to get a penalty from that.
Or alternatively, well done to Kimi and Kubica (whose been driving as long as Hamilton and has the same experience) to have spotted the red light and doing the right thing.
Yet Hamilton and Rosberg, to be given a warning (unsure if Rosberg was, but McLaren did warn Lewis), a red light and stationery cars and still cause an accident? Ill let you come up with your own conclusions/excuses...
ps3ud0
ah right so that explains why lewis got to remain in the hunt for the title last year despite his team being thrown out of the championship for cheating, why on earth did the fia allow that to happen when hamilton had such a lead, did they also rig his off in china and pressing the wrong button in brazil just to make it look real for us?
cant have worked very well as you have them sussed out, so the fia bent over backwards to keep the title interesting last year, and favoured mclaren did you bang your drum about that decision and say how unfair it was to kimi?
thats 2 penalty's in a row for Massa, the FIA sure are helping him all the way
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You know, when it was announced that Massa would get a drive through, I was thinking, what the hell are the stewards thinking? Surely the FIA cannot allow Hamilton to get ahead of Massa by a drive-through? Surely not. Could they?
Seconds later, it was announced that Hamilton, too, would be hit with an identical penalty.
Thankfully, all was right again, in the world of F1.
My own personal view is that these drive through penalties are getting ridiculous. I feel that Hamilton, nor Massa deserved any punishment. By handing out penalties, it will prevent drivers from overtaking and taking risks.