2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18

sunama said:
It was great to see Alonso back to winning ways and totally justifies my belief that he is the best driver currently in F1. JRS seems to disagree with me, yet he hasnt put forward his nomination for F1's current "daddy". ;)
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Woah there buck-o.

I've said on several occasions that I think he's lost something since he joined McLaren. That year hurt him a lot, and for that you can lay the blame squarely at Ron's doorstep. To use an example that I used previously - ask a ****-hot surgeon to spend his working life docking the tails of puppies and he won't come out the other end un-scarred. Ask a champion F1 driver to tool around in a car unworthy of his talent and the same will happen. I'm not sure I'd call him the "daddy", necessarily, but he's an utterly brilliant Grand Prix driver - you don't win two titles by being a slouch.

From the European GP thread:

JRS said:
Of the current crop, I'd say my top six are (in no real order):

Hamilton
Massa
Kubica
Raikkonen
Vettel
Alonso
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At the time, I said that Kimi and Fernando were on borrowed time in my list. Kimi still is. But Alonso....maybe the car has seen a serious hike in performance, but it's been at least matched by him raising his game.

Hell, I only call him petulant out of inertia these days. He's done a lot this year to make amends for his objectionable moments in the last two seasons. I rated him highly when he was at Minardi, and I still do. I rate him higher now than when he joined McLaren on the back of his second title.
 
Cavallino said:
Wouldnt you be if you were asked such ridiculously ludicrous questions?


Besides Hamilton didnt crash, he spun and was not life threatening at all.
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I can't believe such questions were asked, FM is hardly responsible for the reactions his team give towards his driving. I could imagine JA or Ted Kravitz asking those questions because they are grade A morons, who for some reason still have a job in the media. Anyone else though... Get them fired please.
 
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Emlyn_Dewar said:
I can't such questions were asked, FM is hardly responsible for the reactions his team give towards his driving. I could imagine JA or Ted Kravitz asking those questions because they are grade A morons, who for some reason still have a job in the media. Anyone else though... Get them fired please.
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Agreed. And that would be Jonathan Noble of Autosport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71365
 
Wasn't exactly the entire pit crew either. It was just that guy that looks like a bear :D

While it can be annoying for LH/MacMerc fans... it's all swings and roundabouts. At Singapore ITV commented that McLaren's crew were goading on the Ferrari guys running after the fuel hose :p
 
sunama said:
I doubt he will be any faster in the next few years than he is now. He has the basic flat speed already. In fact, he is probably the outright fastest driver in F1. Remember though, fastest driver in F1 is not the same as the best driver in F1. You have to know when to back off and right now Hamilton has only 2 settings: full speed and no speed. He must learn to play the percentage game, just like we've seen Alonso do in the past. Kubica is very good in this area, where he never overdrives. This is why we hardly ever see Kubica make mistakes, yet he always seems to get the most out of the car.
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Yeah, I agree he definitely doesnt need any more speed, just needs much more maturity in his driving and better overall race-craft.

Hes actually gone down in my estimations and where I expected him to destroy the competition for years to come I think he'll get a few championships but wont sparkle like he should have...

Hes just doesnt seem to learn from his past mistakes, which is a definite character flaw for a prospective champion...

Now comparing him with Kubica (whose gone up the ranks like Lewis has and so has the same experience possibly without the same support) makes me think that Kubica is probably the better driver out of two...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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NathanE said:
Wasn't that bad. All he did was lock his brakes. His positioning was excellent. If he didn't lock up he would have been home and dry in all likelihood. It's a shame as he would have easily made the turn if he didn't over work the brakes. I think he just assumed he would need FULL braking force as he was going in later than everyone else when in reality he only JUST slid off the track with the lock up!

In contrast... it was Massa who was terribly hot headed. So many silly incidents throughout the race with him. And even after when talking to the media he still seemed to be raging with fury.
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His position was bad you mean. He was way too deep into the corner to make the turn. The reason he locked his brakes was because he was that deep he was turning and braking at the same time.
 
Massa has been fast all season, but dropped the ball a few times. Hamilton has also been fast but made some serious errors, and when the chips are down and he's needed to pull a stonker of a drive out of the bag (like Singapore and Fuji today) he just doesn't seem to have been able to come up with the goods.

I'd like Hamilton to win the WDC this year, but if Massa wins it certainly won't be an undeserved victory. Both drivers have been a notch above the rest pretty much all season.

For those who think it's been a controversial season this year, think back to 1994
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_cheating_in_the_1994_Formula_One_season
I was flicking through an old season review of 1994 on a 'plane the other day and there were more bans and penalties than you could shake a stick at.
 
TheStig1 said:
here is why lewis lost all those places on the first lap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xq5Q07SOxs
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Aha. Was that on the ITV broadcast at all or did they not get it? Explains a bunch anyway.

NathanE said:
Out braked himself again because due to that first corner lock up his brakes still had very little temperature in them.
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Could have been that. But he does have mad moments - when things go wrong, they can go wrong more than once. Bahrain - poor start, then tagged Alonso and broke his front wing. France - started back in the pack with the grid penalty from Canada and then skipped over that chicane and got another penalty. Belgium - had that spin at La Source early on, put him back where he honestly shouldn't have been (i.e. behind Kimi), and look how that race turned out.
 
adam cool dude said:
His position was bad you mean. He was way too deep into the corner to make the turn. The reason he locked his brakes was because he was that deep he was turning and braking at the same time.
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Yep - its the only reason he got past Heikki by staying on the throttle too long and then knowing he wouldnt be able to make the corner...

Hell Heikki couldnt and he didnt seemingly lock up...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
adam cool dude said:
His position was bad you mean. He was way too deep into the corner to make the turn. The reason he locked his brakes was because he was that deep he was turning and braking at the same time.
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I know.

Position was good. He had the inside line. A lock is a lock unfortunately. Whether you exceed the tyre's grip by 1% or 50% it doesn't matter.

adam cool dude said:
No because his tyres were ruined by by the first corner. Not the brakes. All that smoke was his tyres not his brakes.
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If it was the flat spot causing the issue at that turn there would have been smoke again. Because after an initial flatspot has been made the wheel will always lock at that same point again in 90% of cases. Which to me suggests he simply understeered off due to excess speed. Of course he may have misjudged his speed but IMO he simply forgot that due to locking his brakes at turn 1 they wouldn't be as effective at turn 2.

(In case you don't know.. a locked brake disc is not generating any heat.)
 
Thanks for posting that video Stig1, I had initially though LH had backed off to give back positions. He took so much speed on the run off area in turn 1 it was ridiculous. Turns out he just made another error.

I thought he deserved the penalty before but there is no doubt about it at all now.
 
Well first off congratulations to Alonso, another fine performance. Kimi had a better race this time out and seemed the only one of the "front" runners that kept out of trouble, for a change lol.
I think that both Hamiltons and Massa's penaltys were both called for, and lets face it, who's penalty hurt the most? Bourdais' penalty was a little harsh, it appeared to me that it was just a bit of a racing incident.
I'm not away to read the rest of the posts cos i'd imagine it will just be hamilton fan boys vs the rest of us.
I actually liked what Brundle/Blundell? was saying in the build up. Senna and Schumacher both drove a bit forcefully etc like Hamilton has been and got themselves a reputation for it, which actually helped them on the track as other drivers would be less likely to close the door in fear of getting ran into. Perhaps Hamilton is out to get the same "don't mess with me" attitude. It doesn't seem to go with his "yes sir, thank you sir" off the track attitude. So which one is his real personality? I'd have to say the on track one.
Lewis Hamilton, formula 1's version of Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde
 
sunama said:
Sorry man, but I disagree. Webber was pushing Massa off the track. Massa had 2 options: move off the track and proceed with the overtaking manouvre OR back off, slipstream behind Webber then try and overtake Webber from the other side. I would've done exactly what Massa did. If anyone was being stupid, it was Webber, who forced Massa right off (legal) the track.
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I felt Webber was 100% alright, he pushed him across as far as possible and then when Massa was actually nosing ahead he did finally pull left. Webber wasn't a lap down and wasn't shown a blue flag so why should he not hold his line across to the right (maybe because Massa was driving a Red car). Whether Massa then taking to the red painted area as extra space is legal has obviously been decided by the stewards.
 
Lopéz said:
For those who think it's been a controversial season this year, think back to 1994
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_cheating_in_the_1994_Formula_One_season
I was flicking through an old season review of 1994 on a 'plane the other day and there were more bans and penalties than you could shake a stick at.
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'94 was a very strange year, even leaving aside the tragic San Marino weekend and Wendlinger nigh-on killing himself at Monaco there were many really nasty crashes both in the races and in testing. JJ Lehto damaged his neck in pre-season testing. Pedro Lamy put himself out for most of the year after a testing accident at Silverstone. Andrea Montermini broke both his legs in qualifying at Barcelona.

And on the subject of bannings and the like - am I right in thinking that only 16 out of 46 drivers actually competed in every single race weekend that year? And of those 16, 4 failed to qualify at least once?

The fact that 46 drivers made at least one appearance suggests that something odd was going on. Even leaving aside the injuries and deaths, it was very much a year of 'reject' drivers paying for drives with the minnow teams.
 
Emlyn_Dewar said:
Thanks for posting that video Stig1, I had initially though LH had backed off to give back positions. He took so much speed on the run off area in turn 1 it was ridiculous. Turns out he just made another error.

I thought he deserved the penalty before but there is no doubt about it at all now.
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Sorry I must be missing something here. What is it in that video that makes it clearer? (Genuine question!)
 
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