2008 Japanese GP - Race 16/18

Dutch Guy · 13 Oct 2008 at 11:50

gord said:
Massa's lost it. He has lost all sense of reality and reason.

I agree, it was a battle for position and Bourdais had every right to not let Massa past, besides that he did not swerve and block Massa, he just took the inside line which he could do as he was in front.

Massa should have had some more patience and overtake him a few corners later, he knew he was faster anyway, the same way he should have taken the outside line around Webber as he was way faster than him but he had to go and take the dangerous inside line knowing that Webber would give him a hard time.

utajoker · 13 Oct 2008 at 11:59

Dutch Guy said:
I agree, it was a battle for position and Bourdais had every right to not let Massa past, besides that he did not swerve and block Massa, he just took the inside line which he could do as he was in front.

Massa should have had some more patience and overtake him a few corners later, he knew he was faster anyway, the same way he should have taken the outside line around Webber as he was way faster than him but he had to go and take the dangerous inside line knowing that Webber would give him a hard time.

i reckon if massa had of hit someone coming out of the pit lane during the webber overtake they would have got penalised rather than massa.

IPBA · 13 Oct 2008 at 12:15

utajoker you are merely assuming that would be the case

Flibster · 13 Oct 2008 at 12:19

[edit]
forget it...

NathanE · 13 Oct 2008 at 12:31

Dutch Guy said:
I agree, it was a battle for position and Bourdais had every right to not let Massa past, besides that he did not swerve and block Massa, he just took the inside line which he could do as he was in front.

Massa should have had some more patience and overtake him a few corners later, he knew he was faster anyway, the same way he should have taken the outside line around Webber as he was way faster than him but he had to go and take the dangerous inside line knowing that Webber would give him a hard time.

That's the interesting thing. It's debatable whether Massa would have actually overtook Bourdais fair and square. He spent about 6 laps tucked up behind a Honda for christ sake! So overtaking a car that has exactly the same engine as your own is going to be quite a challenge.

The pressure is beginning to tell on Massa IMO. He's never been in a title fight before. Hamilton has... last year. I think once Hamilton regroups himself he will be stronger. It's good that China is this weekend so he doesn't have to be depressed for 2 weeks.

NightSt@lk3r · 13 Oct 2008 at 12:36

NathanE said:
I think once Hamilton regroups himself he will be stronger.

I bet you said that last year, then he went and hit the ECU reset button at Brazil.

Dup · 13 Oct 2008 at 12:40

Back from my ban (thanks stiggywinkles).

They're both immature when it comes to a title race to be honest. Both two seasons in to a top team too. They are both out to prove something and we then we get incedents like yesterday and Spa.

Massas take on Webber was really unnecessary and I was quite alarmed that he was allowed to do that. I know its been done before but in the safety concious word of modern F1 should be penalising these kind of incedents rather than a driver running out of talent.

It's no wonder other drivers get tetchy when the new kid comes along and starts racing them becasue they can just get penalised for the other drviers mistakes.

englishpremier · 13 Oct 2008 at 12:43

Oh my god, have you lot read what you are writing? A lot of it is borderline ridiculous.

What is with all the random conspiracy theories thrown out after each race oh here.

Yes there is a British driver and team involed and it is good to see people backing them, but no everyone is out to get Hamilton or McLaren. There is no vested interest in the FIA, just a large number of poor decisions. Remember that there are different stewards officiating each race (minus the 1 permanant member)

F1 is fast becoming silly with the amount of penalties handed out, but as one member here pointed out this is nothing compared to 1994.

I'm sure the same people that are claiming the FIA and all the individual Stewards are biased in favour of Ferrari are the same ones that believed the FIA was biased towards Michael Schumacher (in his last two teams)

Lets get back real intelligent debate about the sport.

/runs to get flamepfroof clothing

NathanE · 13 Oct 2008 at 12:52

NightSt@lk3r said:
I bet you said that last year, then he went and hit the ECU reset button at Brazil.

I still think he needs to score well at China, at least better than Massa, if he doesn't want to become a shaking bag of nerves at Brazil.

IPBA · 13 Oct 2008 at 13:02

Lewis will bottle it again in china if any of the red cars get ahead of him and he will mess up again. I think it wil take a few years for Lewis to get a strong head on his shoulders.

Dutch Guy · 13 Oct 2008 at 13:03

englishpremier said:
Oh my god, have you lot read what you are writing? A lot of it is borderline ridiculous.

So you don't think the penalties that were handed out lately have been harsher on McLaren than on Ferrari?

The inconsistency by the FIA has all to do when they have to give a Ferrari driver a penalty and fail to do so or give McLaren/Toro Rosso a penalty when there is no need or has there been an example of a dubious penalty being given to a Ferrari?

They also make up the rules along the way which is just plain silly and is admitting that the rules there are/were are crap.

NathanE · 13 Oct 2008 at 13:07

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36276

@ the last paragraph

Alonso is funny

Zogger · 13 Oct 2008 at 13:14

Don't forget China is Red. Communists chose red in support of ferarri :mad:

Duke · 13 Oct 2008 at 13:22

NathanE said:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36276

@ the last paragraph Alonso is funny

TBH he is the daddy

Duke · 13 Oct 2008 at 13:38

Classic quote from Bourdais as well -

Bourdais, demoted from sixth to 10th, was mystified as to why he had been given a penalty.

"What was I supposed to do?" he asked. "Roll out the red carpet?"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7665767.stm

pastymuncher · 13 Oct 2008 at 13:51

Dutch Guy said:
So you don't think the penalties that were handed out lately have been harsher on McLaren than on Ferrari?

The inconsistency by the FIA has all to do when they have to give a Ferrari driver a penalty and fail to do so or give McLaren/Toro Rosso a penalty when there is no need or has there been an example of a dubious penalty being given to a Ferrari?

They also make up the rules along the way which is just plain silly and is admitting that the rules there are/were are crap.

Totally agree with you. Bourdais should not have been penalised. It was for position for crying out loud. That was Massa "helped" to get another free point. Any other car tangling with him and nothing would have happened. Massa's penalty for taking out Hamilton was justified but it was only a token gesture anyway as he was already dropped back because of his mistake. As for the first corner incident, since when has anybody been given a penalty for screwing up in the first corner? I can name loads of drivers who have done this and none of those got a penalty. F1 is more about the politics now and not the racing. It's pathetic!!

Murf · 13 Oct 2008 at 14:21

NathanE said:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36276

@ the last paragraph Alonso is funny

Alonso has just gone up again in my estimation, even though I am a McLaren supporter.

As for the race, the only penalty I thought should have been applied was Massa's for the chicane incident. However, Hamilton should never have been stupid enough to put himself in that position anyway with his antics at the first corner. That lads ego and recklessness is getting the better of him.

Nullvoid · 13 Oct 2008 at 14:23

It's awesome to see Alonso winning races again, especially given how uncompetitive the Renault has been. I wonder how much of that improvement can be attributed to him?

englishpremier · 13 Oct 2008 at 14:30

Dutch Guy said:
So you don't think the penalties that were handed out lately have been harsher on McLaren than on Ferrari?

The inconsistency by the FIA has all to do when they have to give a Ferrari driver a penalty and fail to do so or give McLaren/Toro Rosso a penalty when there is no need or has there been an example of a dubious penalty being given to a Ferrari?

They also make up the rules along the way which is just plain silly and is admitting that the rules there are/were are crap.

You misinterpreted my post.

I think massa and hamilton deserved pentalties (in the current climate), a stop/go and a drive through respectively. Bourdais didn't deserve a penalty, but I think something needs to be done as cars coming out of the pits can cause accidents when released into a corner at the same time as a car that has more momentum. A little further away but Alonso coming out of the pits in Singapore could have caused more of a problem for Coulthard.

I think Hamilton losing the win in Hungry was harsh, but i do think it was an incident that needed investigating. Other than that, I do believe the penalties have been reasonably even for both sides, though not necessarily consistant.

The FIA should use permanant race stewards who are voting in by the teams. I feel that would lead to greater consistency.

ScottehBotteh · 13 Oct 2008 at 14:40

Really hope Hamilton doesnt end up losing the Championship again.

There was some shocking decisions this weekend, by both race stewards and drivers. One thing that narks me is blatent lies, and if the articles are true about Massa with regards to him blaming other people for his errors this weekend he's lost any respect I had for him.