2011 Team mate Wars

Team mates as of Turkey qfy.


Vettel out-qualified Webber 4-0
Hamilton out-qualified Button 3-1
Alonso out-qualified Massa 4-0
Rosberg out-qualified M Sch 4-0
Petrov out-qualified Heidfeld 3-1
Barrichello out-qualified Maldonado 4-0
di Resta out-qualified Sutil 3-1
Kobayashi out-qualified Perez 2-2
Buemi out-qualified Alguersuari 3-1
Kovalainen out-qualified Trulli 4-0
Liuzzi out-qualified Karthi 4-0
Glock out-qualified D'Ambrosio 2-2

Race finishes after Turkey

Vettel out-raced Webber 4-0
Hamilton out-raced Button 3-1
Alonso out-raced Massa 2-2
Rosberg out-raced M Sch 3-1
Petrov out-raced Heidfeld 2-2
Barrichello out-raced Maldonado 4-0
di Resta out-raced Sutil 2-2
Kobayashi out-raced Perez 4-0
Buemi out-raced Alguersuari 4-0
Kovalainen out-raced Trulli 2-2
Liuzzi out-raced Karthi 2-1
Glock out-raced D'Ambrosio 3-1

So the drivers after 4 races that have beaten their team mate in qually at every race, Vettel, Rubens, Alonso, Rosberg, Luizzi and surprisingly for me Kovalainen.
 
Mercedes didn't employ Schumacher as a driver. They employed him for his expertise and knowledge. They employed him to do for them what he was doing for Ferrari. Having Schumacher sat on your pit wall can only be a benifit when it comes to F1.

However, I doubt they would have got him just offering him some money, so instead they offered him a drive. They will take the pain for a couple of years, making up stories to keep him there and cover his lack in performance, and then when its over he will take his spot right next to Ross Brawn on the pit wall with some young talent in the car, and in a couple of years they will be winning races, and maybe championships.

His driving career was over 4 years ago. Merc are just letting him have some fun before getting him tied into a nice long contract and sitting him down to develop the team from within. The Schumacher/Mercedes/Brawn partnership is a very long term one. Race finishes at this point are insignificant.
 
Look drivers don't develope the cars the engineers do. They no longer do engine developement and all the aero is done by engineers.

All the feedback drivers are giving is where the car is understeering, oversteering, balance etc. CS nuts once commented on here on the limited feedback the drivers are giving and yet red bull isn't too shabby.

The best cars are where the best engineers/designers are, not the drivers with the best feedback. Hakkinen drove 2 of the all time great mclarens funnily enough by newey and listen to that guys feedback.

Honda were getting feedback for years from button, one half decent season. Brawn arrives spends almost 2 years on a car and from day one it was the best.

Drivers do not develope cars and Mercedes employed MS to drive the wheels off it. It's not like MS was a great pitlane developement guru for ferrari when he retired. His area of expertise and knowledge in F1 has gone.

The teams do very well developing the cars with no testing, all the do is react to the data the computers are giving them and balance feedback from drivers.
 
Skeeter said:
Sorry danny, didn't realise you were an expert on this. Which team do you work for?
Click to expand...

Oh I'm sorry lets not allow any F1 chat on this forum, you may as well delete all your own posts as well.

I've spoken in person to a engineer of a world champion and a friend of mines father was an engineer at Williams for many years before his death in the late 90's.

Forgetting all that you only have to listen to the drivers, limited knowledge and they all spout about big upgrades for the next race, because thats what the teams keep telling them. It keeps them happy and gives them something to say.

How often did button spout it in 09 only to learn when the season ended that Brawn all but gave up on developing the car mid season.

The drivers tell the cars how they feel and the engineers find solutions. It's hardly the same as all this guff you hear about drivers developing cars.

You only had to listen to Massa and Smedley talking in the pre race to see Smedley talking about the exact set and speed required while massa stood there nodding.

The role drivers play in the developement of a modern F1 car is always overstated.
 
Jeese danny, reel your neck back in for one moment! It was a semi genuine question.

If you haven't worked for an F1 team them your 'knowledge' is just as speculative as mine. Therefore both our opinions are equally unsupported, and equally as (un)valid.

Just because you can shout loudest doesn't make you right. How about you give it a few years. If Schumacher retires, and buggers off to relax on some beach for the rest of his days, you can tell me I was wrong. But if in a few years Schumacher is sat next to Ross on the pit wall discussing tactics while the Merc put up a half decent performance, then I will tell you that you were wrong.
 
Skeeter said:
Mercedes didn't employ Schumacher as a driver. They employed him for his expertise and knowledge. They employed him to do for them what he was doing for Ferrari. Having Schumacher sat on your pit wall can only be a benifit when it comes to F1.

However, I doubt they would have got him just offering him some money, so instead they offered him a drive. They will take the pain for a couple of years, making up stories to keep him there and cover his lack in performance, and then when its over he will take his spot right next to Ross Brawn on the pit wall with some young talent in the car, and in a couple of years they will be winning races, and maybe championships.

His driving career was over 4 years ago. Merc are just letting him have some fun before getting him tied into a nice long contract and sitting him down to develop the team from within. The Schumacher/Mercedes/Brawn partnership is a very long term one. Race finishes at this point are insignificant.
Click to expand...

You're just kidding yourself.

Ross Brawn offered him a drive in a championship winning car and Schumacher thought it would be like his Ferrari years all over again, the fact that Mercedes were so uncompetitive was a surprise to everyone including Ross Brawn.

As for his age that's just another convenient excuse to explain his lack of godly dominance (both in general and over his team mate), it couldn't possibly be that F1 is no longer an uncompetitive one man/one car show could it...? well actually it still is, except Vettel is the lucky boy riding the wave of an utterly dominant car this time.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't be surprised to see Schumacher still in the car next year, I imagine Mercedes may well like to have someone else in the car but it's not as though there are many big talents set to be out of a drive next season at the moment. Last thing they need is to hire someone who will do even less with the car.

Plus he must bring in a huge amount of sponsership and interest to the team purely by factor of who he is regardless of results.

I agree though that it would be nice to have Merc take on a younger driver and have Schumi as an "advisor", perhaps even Hulkenberg? Have team Nico :p
 
Some of the things Schumi has been putting out there implies that he knows he's a bit past it now (that move on Petrov in Turkey was just pointless)...

Id think his re-retirement might coincide with Kubica returning to Renault and giving Heidfeld a seat for the rest of the season or something till Merc pry di-Resta/Hulk out...

Trulli also looks to be in the same pretty much given up boat too
 
I think Paul Di Resta is the obvious move for Mercedes, as he won them the DTM championship (well, HWA but as far as I can see, they're essentially the Merc works teams), so he already has that link with Mercedes.
 
Skeeter said:
Jeese danny, reel your neck back in for one moment! It was a semi genuine question.

If you haven't worked for an F1 team them your 'knowledge' is just as speculative as mine. Therefore both our opinions are equally unsupported, and equally as (un)valid.

Just because you can shout loudest doesn't make you right. How about you give it a few years. If Schumacher retires, and buggers off to relax on some beach for the rest of his days, you can tell me I was wrong. But if in a few years Schumacher is sat next to Ross on the pit wall discussing tactics while the Merc put up a half decent performance, then I will tell you that you were wrong.
Click to expand...
drivers dont develop cars who would want a 7 times world champion with more real experience than 90% of the grid?

this is why pedro is so unpopular with the teams ... oh wait isnt he working for mclaren as a test driver again? people who think development/test drivers arent needed are smoking some seriously good ****

they are talking about bringing some testing sessions back aswell...
 
pingwing said:
(that move on Petrov in Turkey was just pointless)...
Click to expand...
this one?
2ymhild.gif

that accident looks completely different when you look at it from a different angle...
schumacher was obviously giving petrov room to go down the inside and didnt realise petrov was going to deep and wouldnt be able to make the corner.
had petrov actually turned instead of diving in a straight line it would have been fine, it seems as if petrov slowed down a bit quicker than schumacher was expecting and if he would have turned a tiny bit later his front wing wouldnt have touched petrovs car.
were constantly reminded how the drivers cant see where the front wing actually is aswell so its not as if schumacher turned knowing it was going to be ripped off.

if you check the laptimes on the fia site schumacher was lapping faster than his team mate for the first half of the race and faster than a lot of people in the top 10..

if it wasnt for yet another crap qualifying and that accident he would have been very close to rosberg
 
Last edited:
lol arknor seriously? you think he didn't know his wing was there, at the point of impact its wheel to wheel then the cars just being dragged and he messes up the nose cone, its typical old MS trying to bully other drivers. Times have changed, he hasn't, he doesn't fit in todays formula 1.
 
The line for that corner is on the outside, Schumacher saw Petrov attempting a pass with DRS and moved across to the inside in an attempt to block him diving down the inside

Knowing he didnt want to leave himself too tight an angle he didn't go hard left, Petrov did, and ended up having problems slowing the car down for the turn. This is where Schumacher failed.. he didn't get out of the way and the result was a messy tangle.

I'd say it was 60/40 Schumacher's fault and that's being generous to MSC.
 
Thanks for putting this together in a place for easy reference danny. Another stat that might be good in here is average qualifying difference. It's one of those stats that can be really telling, such as Rosberg averaging 7 tenths faster than Schumi in quali so far this season. That's an incredible amount. Also it's a stat that isn't readily available anywhere.
 
arknor said:
that collision

if it wasnt for yet another crap qualifying and that accident he would have been very close to rosberg
Click to expand...

Urm im amazed MSc didnt see him, at all... To the point where he drives into the side of him... It's beyond belief that the incident cant be given mostly to MSc going "I was 7 times world champion who dare pass me" well most people are doing it and his best answer is to try and slam in the side.

And no he wouldn't have been close to Rosberg. Close to Rosberg implies that he could have put in some decent moves getting past other drivers, or more importantly actually do something in qualy.

Don't get me wrong I was a big fan when he went to Ferrari, some of the best drives have been him behind a wheel of one and the championships against Hakkinen, but those days should just remain what they are, good memories as there are plenty of good young drivers who could potentially give Nico a run for his money. (note the same opinion will be held of Rubens when someone turns up to williams and out shines more than Hulk did, and the opinion is also applicable to Trulli as he doesnt really look bothered by driving anymore)
 
Mr Jack said:
So it does!

It's odd that Schumacher is struggling so much in qualifying, he was also so very, very good at it before.
Click to expand...

yea he was fine in the race and as james allen says
james allen said:
Schumacher effectively lost 30 seconds having to make that early stop for a new nose. If you take 30 seconds away from his finishing time, he would have been somewhere around 6th place Jenson Button, whose pace was slow at the end on worn tyres, so the collision was costly.
Click to expand...
which wouldnt have been to bad a race given his qualifying was so terrible
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom