*** 4K Player Thread ***

two reddit articles i had read here, here corroborated 15Mb/s, so less than blu-ray (25Mb/s, h264)
but fulll fat 4k can be 128Mb/s, so fibre maybe inadequate.

The 15Mb/s seems to be a compromise, based on PQ people find acceptable for typical 4k tv size, internet infrastruture bandwidth capabilities/cost, and maybe distributor/studios restrict it too.
will be interesting if someone breaks cartel and starts supplying a higher quality 4k


afterthought - samsung have some downloadable 4k clips at 50Mb/s and also on utube at 17Mb/s - so can make some comparison
 
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theone8181 said:
How does the apple bitrate compare to netflix, or is it not comparable? I'm not sure even on fibre that it would be possible to stream uncompressed 4k.
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I don't think bitrate is the whole story. Apple are doing something a bit clever with the codec.

On a 2017 OLED it is hard to tell the PQ difference between Apple TV 4K HDR and Bluray 4k HDR tbh.

Apple have done a great job, to the point where I am not sure if I need the Oppo (but I sure do want one).
 
Problem with the 4K streamed stuff, even with Netflix, is the audio.

You normally wind up with Dolby Digital even if the film is in 4K HDR, most blurays would have DTS as as minimum, often having DTS-MA, DTS-HD, Atmos, or DTS-X.

The streaming market is so far behind on the audio side of things that they still can't really compete with the physical media versions.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
Awesome thanks!
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No problem, do you have a US iTunes account and a moviesanywhere account?

You can get digital HDX codes and redeem through VUDU, VUDU then links with moviesanywhere.

You can also link VUDU, iTunes and ultraviolet to movies anywhere and it will push movies across all platforms.

Some newer films aren’t available via an iTunes code so need to be redeemed through VUDU and then you’ll get it on iTunes. :)
 
HungryHippos said:
Problem with the 4K streamed stuff, even with Netflix, is the audio.

You normally wind up with Dolby Digital even if the film is in 4K HDR, most blurays would have DTS as as minimum, often having DTS-MA, DTS-HD, Atmos, or DTS-X.

The streaming market is so far behind on the audio side of things that they still can't really compete with the physical media versions.
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From memory almost every film on my Apple 4K tv states Dolby Vision if the film isn’t 4K HDR but doesn’t state which audio is being used.
 
Clov!s said:
From memory almost every film on my Apple 4K tv states Dolby Vision if the film isn’t 4K HDR but doesn’t state which audio is being used.
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Dolby Vision is just an equivalent for the HDR, my TV can do both, but will only do one of them at a time.

I have a 5.1.2 sound system plugged into a Denon AVR-X3300W AV Receiver, and that will tell me what audio codecs are being used. Dolby Digital is fine for TV shows, and it's adequate for movies as well, but it will not beat the audio quality of a good audio stream which is DTS Master Audio, or Atmos, and in most cases not even DTS alone. I don't really watch movies very often on Netflix as the audio quality isn't typically as good.

Audio quality will matter more if you have a better audio system. If you just use the TV's own audio then it will probably matter very little, or a basic soundbar probably not much to it there either.

Interesting video comparing the Apple 4K video with full UHD disk streaming. The general consensus seems to be that the Apple 4K video quality is almost as good as the full disk, but not quite. The audio will still be a bit of a sticking point in my opinion though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbKCZpQN72c
 
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HungryHippos said:
Dolby Vision is just an equivalent for the HDR, my TV can do both, but will only do one of them at a time.

I have a 5.1.2 sound system plugged into a Denon AVR-X3300W AV Receiver, and that will tell me what audio codecs are being used. Dolby Digital is fine for TV shows, and it's adequate for movies as well, but it will not beat the audio quality of a good audio stream which is DTS Master Audio, or Atmos, and in most cases not even DTS alone. I don't really watch movies very often on Netflix as the audio quality isn't typically as good.

Audio quality will matter more if you have a better audio system. If you just use the TV's own audio then it will probably matter very little, or a basic soundbar probably not much to it there either.

Interesting video comparing the Apple 4K video with full UHD disk streaming. The general consensus seems to be that the Apple 4K video quality is almost as good as the full disk, but not quite. The audio will still be a bit of a sticking point in my opinion though.
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I have a Samsung Soundbar which is good enough for me. :)
 
I updated to include the link above, the video is interesting to see bits of the comparisons anyway, the naked eye can't distinguish much between the disk and the stream. Although as usual the stream will probably suffer more in dark scenes where the encoding tries to take details out of the darks to save bitrate, but may do so too aggressively.
 
Clov!s said:
Gone up to $7.45 where i bought it but there are a few websites selling for $6-$8 depending on where you redeem it.

http://www.ultracloudhd.com/spider-man-homecoming-uv-hdx-digital-code/
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I thought it was a bit dodgy selling the UV codes I didnt think they were allowed for resale. EBay did have a big crackdown on these at one point but I have seen them on there today. I know it happens but I`m surprised at that US site selling them. I can see the film companies eventually getting heavy with this practice as I read you are not meant to sell them without the original disc(s) and packaging.
 
That is really cheeky, selling the UV codes that then presumably become 4K in iTunes? May as well just pirate the films at that point, at least you're not lining someone elses pockets then!
 
varkanoid said:
I thought it was a bit dodgy selling the UV codes I didnt think they were allowed for resale. EBay did have a big crackdown on these at one point but I have seen them on there today. I know it happens but I`m surprised at that US site selling them. I can see the film companies eventually getting heavy with this practice as I read you are not meant to sell them without the original disc(s) and packaging.
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There’s over 100 websites that sell digital US codes, it’s been going on for a few years now.
 
HungryHippos said:
That is really cheeky, selling the UV codes that then presumably become 4K in iTunes? May as well just pirate the films at that point, at least you're not lining someone elses pockets then!
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That’s right but I’m paying $4 instead of £25 a 4K film, honestly couldn’t care about the legal side of it, it’s worth doing for me.
 
I'm not going to get onto some kind of moral high horse and say don't do it, but at the same time I don't think it's really any better than just straight up pirating the film

In some respects I'd say it's worse as you are paying totally the wrong people for it, and iTunes is coughing up the bandwidth for you to watch the film. At least if you pirate it you aren't streaming it from outside your own network, or paying anyone.

Mind you I agree in part, the film industry is nuts in general still and prices are high, especially for films which you may only watch once.
 
HungryHippos said:
the video is interesting to see bits of the comparisons anyway
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agree - will they make an apple app available directly on 4k tv's ?

However I think Vincent's knowledge of video codecs is limited,
when you look at/compare a static paused scene, you are probably comparing an intra encoded frame rather than an inter encoded frame, see here, these should be more faithful/accurate to the original master, than other frames that are 'interpolated' (based on motion analysis)
He did not seem to make comparison of a high action sequence lasting several seconds either, which is where I think the difference would be observed. (I just stepped through video - did I miss it ?)

Has he made any comparison with the other streaming services ?, I would expect he would find them similar, since they have similar bitrate.
Apple must have liked ;) that he did this review, since, although many consumers will not see the video, folks who are writing reviews for web sites, consumers do see, will plagiarize its comments.

Clov!s said:
but I’m paying $4 instead of £25 a 4K film
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cost would be similar on netflix/amazon though (with flexibility/economy of a family sub)
 
jpaul said:
agree - will they make an apple app available directly on 4k tv's ?

However I think Vincent's knowledge of video codecs is limited,
when you look at/compare a static paused scene, you are probably comparing an intra encoded frame rather than an inter encoded frame, see here, these should be more faithful/accurate to the original master, than other frames that are 'interpolated' (based on motion analysis)
He did not seem to make comparison of a high action sequence lasting several seconds either, which is where I think the difference would be observed. (I just stepped through video - did I miss it ?)

Has he made any comparison with the other streaming services ?, I would expect he would find them similar, since they have similar bitrate.
Apple must have liked ;) that he did this review, since, although many consumers will not see the video, folks who are writing reviews for web sites, consumers do see, will plagiarize its comments.


cost would be similar on netflix/amazon though (with flexibility/economy of a family sub)
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Not even close, buying a 4K film through amazon video, most are £18+.

Also they take weeks if not months to get the newest films.
 
Since the Apple 4K content is streamed, I was comparing apple cost against a couple of years of membership to netflix/prime, which is >lifespan I would want to re-view most of the 4k movies.
Two years out, 4K content will probably not demand a premium anyway.

I could not find a comparison of newer 4k movies apple vs others, but will the distributors really allow apple to beat the opposition to the market place(netflix purchasing power must be up there)

( A forbes aricle suggested Amazon 4k movie buy prices were being reduced , but I guess that is 4K streamed too. - does anyone offer 4K to store locally and keep )
 
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