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580 GTX Price is up....

Well we are debating Dirt2 DX11 performance, would crysis benchmarks be more appropriate.:o

Pretty sure this dicscussion was had the other day with plenty of sites giving the edge in dirt 2 to amd.

I guess you were mistaken, where's all these " plenty of sites "
 
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Wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia are not impressed the way Wizz benches Dirt2 in DX9 giving AMD the performance advantage, in DX11 Nvidia walks it in Dirt2.

Firstly, lots of sites used DX9 on Nvidia cards, they just didn't know it, as LOTS of sites had incorrect 480gtx results due to the use of the demo and it being very dodgey.

The simple fact that Wizzard has removed EVERY single game which AMD happens to massively dominate in, and in 2 benchmarks in the CURRENT suite still being used has simply removed the 5970 results. This is incredibly shockingly, the 2 BEST AMD results across the entire benchmark suite, which would signifcantly alter the final comparison's round up of cards.

Yeah, try and paint Wizzard as pro AMD all you like, he also initially used the 9.12 cat's rather than 10.3, 10.2, 10.1's in the 480gtx release review, which knocked 5-8% off AMD's scores.

6 months ago, WITH the oh so bad DX9 Dirt 2 benchmark the 5970 apparently hda a 38% lead over the 480GTX, 6 months later, with every 480gtx destroying benchmark result removed for the 5970, the difference is down to 24%, despite the results left in having changed on the 480/5970 less than a couple percent either way, infact the 5970 makes more marginal gains than the 480gtx, yet the speed difference has gone down dramatically.

As for hardware Cannucks and Anandtech, we've gone through this before, firstly Hardware Cannucks is the bentest site I've seen (bar techpowerup), ti consistantly updates to the latest or fastest Nvidia driver, while using old drivers and results for AMD cards, then LYING about using different drivers, etc, etc. Anandtech is honest about which drivers it uses, but rarely seems to use the best one.
 
My 480SLI setup pretty much matches a fellow forumites quadfire setup in Dirt2. I guess we are both evil biased reviewers on the payroll of the GPU manufacturers. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=17713399#post17713399 Now were do I collect my green cheque?

Out of interest, which sites can we trust these days? It seems the list of green tainted sites is a moving target this week
 
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My 480SLI setup pretty much matches a fellow forumites quadfire setup in Dirt2. I guess we are both evil biased reviewers on the payroll of the GPU manufacturers. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=17713399#post17713399 Now were do I collect my green cheque?

Out of interest, which sites can we trust these days? It seems the list of green tainted sites is a moving target this week

I don't hold much truck with any review site these days... very few seem to use the right drivers for each make, rarely any attempt to match driver settings i.e. "Good Quality" settings can be different between AMD and nVidia in regards to what they do and lastly very few use frametime analysis which would tell a far more complete story than min/max/avg which are easily skewed.

I should start doing my own comparisons but I'm loath to spend money on AMD hardware that I'd just put aside once done.
 
My 480SLI setup pretty much matches a fellow forumites quadfire setup in Dirt2. I guess we are both evil biased reviewers on the payroll of the GPU manufacturers. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=17713399#post17713399 Now were do I collect my green cheque?

Out of interest, which sites can we trust these days? It seems the list of green tainted sites is a moving target this week

I don't hold much truck with any review site these days... very few seem to use the right drivers for each make, rarely any attempt to match driver settings i.e. "Good Quality" settings can be different between AMD and nVidia in regards to what they do and lastly very few use frametime analysis which would tell a far more complete story than min/max/avg which are easily skewed.

AS Rroff said, my issue with review sites isn't in general green or red bias, its just, being a bit crap, of which most are. Most are painfully lazy about their methodology, even worse some just draw ludicrous conclusions that have no basis in reality. realistically a lot of these sites simply don't have the hardware, while a decade ago AMD/Nvidia would send out cards left right and centre and anyone who starts their own review site could get freehardware, it changed dramatically. Lots of places get a card for 2-3 days and then have to send them off to another review site or back to whoever they got it from.

So some sites have old results because they don't have the hardware to get new results for every new release with new drivers, the difference in quality in those sites(of which there are many these days) are those who tell the truth, who tell you what drivers are being used, will say they don't have card X anymore so on newer drivers you can expect X performance from AMD/Nvidia cards compared to 6 months before. Very few do that though, most lie through the teeth and you can see, especially on Hardware Canucks, that they claim to use new drivers but the results are clearly ripped out of 6 month old reviews.

Which incidentally is why the 460gtx reviews look so good, they use old 480GTX numbers aswell so the 460gtx looks far faster compared to AMD cards AND the 480/470gtx than it really is. THe reality is, 90% of review sites out there, are completely rubbish. Another 5% will happily lie and use dodgey results to favour not really one company over another, just whoever will throw them the most advertising cash for reviewing their cards. 98% of sites make money through ad sales direct from the guys they are reviewing cards for, and if you don't think theres some, incentive for making a card stand out or recommending it /scoring it better than it is, you're mad.

Theres also sites out there who I've heard(from very good sources, keeping in mind I used to work for a review site and have met loads of industry/pr people) will simply refuse to review things if companies don't buy up X amount of advertising space. They weren't biased, they wouldn't have reviewed it better or worse, they were just greedy gits.

Your sli might match quadfire, but how much faster would quad sli be. Quadfire/quad sli scales like crap. So your sli matches quadfire, but how much ahead of xfire is it. Double the speed or only 10% behind. The 480gtx is between 10-20% faster in general, why wouldn't SLi be ahead?

Techreport as I've highlighted, removed EVERY SINGLE AMD dominating benchmark, except 2 or so, one of which was Call of Juarez, its marginally ahead of a 5870, but the same benchmarks, on a 6 month old review, with the 480gtx getting the same results within 1%, and the 5970 is something like 55% faster, or maybe 70% faster(i forget which is which offhand).

They still include Call of Juarez 2, and the 5970 is included in the review, but for that benchmark and one other the 5970 ONLY was removed. So in a review they removed say 2 results while including 5970 results in another 15 or so benchmarks, and just happen to remove the 2 with the biggest lead for the 5970?

Sorry but you really can't class that as anything but insanely dodgey.

Its akin to say Anandtech reviewed the 6870, but left out 3 "standard" benchmarks for the past two years that we knew showed the 480gtx 50% faster than a 5870, and then left out the 480gtx result in a couple more.

Its laughable, infact I've never seen another review site compare say 10 different cards in a review, and for 2 of the benchmarks, leave out results for one card AND THEN draw conclusions and show the speed difference leaving out the results making the difference quite deliberately look smaller.
 
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I don't hold much truck with any review site these days... very few seem to use the right drivers for each make, rarely any attempt to match driver settings i.e. "Good Quality" settings can be different between AMD and nVidia in regards to what they do and lastly very few use frametime analysis which would tell a far more complete story than min/max/avg which are easily skewed.

I should start doing my own comparisons but I'm loath to spend money on AMD hardware that I'd just put aside once done.

Yea, that is why I made that thread a while back and invited others to post results and to make further benchmarking suggestions.
 
I don't know why people find it so hard to accept the most likely truth when faced with benchmarks from a number of decent sites.

Unless Raven has made it up there's a bunch of reviews in DX11 from decent sites that show the 480 spanking the 5870 in Dirt2.
 
I think the hardocp article says it all these time demos really do tell us little about how actual gameplay will pan out. I have ran a few over the years and my fps has been completely different to when i go and play the game often my fps has been much worse.

Maybe here at ocuk we should use fraps to play through a level and give our results on different games. I think its the only conclusive way to do. Obviously upload the video also to make sure nobody is standing looking at a wall for 10 minutes lol.
 
At some point DM benchmarks apps need to be changed and updated to stay contemporary with gamers and what there playing. Can I review still say he’s results reflect that of the average gamer when he’s still using Far Cry 2, Crysis to bench new products?
 
I don't know why people find it so hard to accept the most likely truth when faced with benchmarks from a number of decent sites.

Unless Raven has made it up there's a bunch of reviews in DX11 from decent sites that show the 480 spanking the 5870 in Dirt2.

Well if you read the hardocp thread you would have seen a 3870x2 spanking a 8800gtx in crysis using the time demos but when they used fraps to play through a level they found the gtx8800 to be better as it looked like amd optimised there drivers for the crysis time demo. Also as i said above have you not used these benchmarks and found the game to be much slower than your results lead you to believe.
 
I totally agree timedemos are to be taken with a pinch of salt and can be fudged, however when faced with several benchmarks mostly from decent sites showing the 480 spanking the 5870 why bother arguing the toss?

What's the most likely outcome? Is it due to dodgy benchmarks or is it that actually the 480 is better at dirt 2 with DX11?
 

Home now so I can post one of my saved heaven results with my gtx470 in SLI.

Remember this is at 8xaa and extreme tesselation and I spank the gtx580.

I was hoping/expecting better tbh. I thought the gtx580 was at least 20% better than a gtx480 in heaven. It really needs to be under £400 to be competitive.

heavenextream1920x10808.png
 
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Massive hit compared to an i7, though heaven is not CPU dependent at all.

Greebo, you're running 470 SLI, you're expecting the 580 to come close to it?
 
if thats a dig at me then i suggest you go re-read my posts.

FYi, that's £376 straight converted, tell me the last time uk and us cards have sold at a 1:1 conversion rate. not once.

We very often do get them at the the correct conversion rate plus VAT. The VAT can add a fair amount at the higher end, but on average we get them for very close to what people in the US pay.
 
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