Abbortion

Curio · 18 Sep 2012 at 14:51

My opinion on abortion has changed dramatically since having my own child. I'm now opposed to abortion at any stage. I'm still not sure on the whole rape issue though.....or if it's obvious the child has serious physical issues or their quality of life is obviously impacted in a major way. I'm finding it harder to reconcile those situations.

Parents - how did your views on abortion change once you had kids? Genuinely interested.

DanielMMS · 18 Sep 2012 at 14:56

^TANK^ said:
That was just two examples off the top of my head. Would you want to bring a child into this world that is guaranteed to be screwed from the off set? I sure as hell wouldn't!

I am a little biased since I actively support a charity involved with working amongst people with down syndrome and their families. Whilst their long-term prospects are generally incomparable with those who do not suffer from down syndrome that does not mean that they cannot benefit from a full and satisfying life.

^TANK^ · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:04

DanielMMS said:
I am a little biased since I actively support a charity involved with working amongst people with down syndrome and their families. Whilst their long-term prospects are generally incomparable with those who do not suffer from down syndrome that does not mean that they cannot benefit from a full and satisfying life.

I Apologize if I have offended you but thats my stance on abortion. I personally couldn't live with the guilt of bringing a life into this world that was guaranteed to have either or both a severe health problem or a deformity.

DanielMMS · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:06

Curio said:
Parents - how did your views on abortion change once you had kids? Genuinely interested.

It was a difficult concept before having kids and remains so. I would probably describe myself as being a borderline pro-lifer prior to becoming a parent with my views moving more towards how precious life is having become a parent - especially after losing our third child. That said, where health issues are involved - particularly for the mother - then it is much more of a grey area. As is the scenario of a child conceived by rape. I am less sympathetic towards abortion due to health issues for the child unless they are of such a severity to make the potential for quality of life absolutely minimal.

However, now I have an obnoxious eighteen year old son who looks set to remain in the next for the foreseeable future, my views are going back the other way.

DanielMMS · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:07

^TANK^ said:
I Apologize if I have offended you but thats my stance on abortion. I personally couldn't live with the guilt of bringing a life into this world that was guaranteed to have either or both a severe health problem or a deformity.

No apology necessary. And I completely understand your viewpoint.

Gilly · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:13

Curio said:
My opinion on abortion has changed dramatically since having my own child. I'm now opposed to abortion at any stage. I'm still not sure on the whole rape issue though.....or if it's obvious the child has serious physical issues or their quality of life is obviously impacted in a major way. I'm finding it harder to reconcile those situations.

Parents - how did your views on abortion change once you had kids? Genuinely interested.

I don't believe mine have changed at all. I was always pro-choice though I have always believed that 24 weeks is too late unless there is medical reason for not going to term (ie serious health issues relating to mother or baby).

PanMaster said:
If she did it to cover up the affair then she deserved to be punished.

Calling it murder is retarded regardless of motive in my opinion.

Skating very close to an attack there for no good reason. Intentional killing in cold blood is murder.

Castiel · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:17

Gilly said:
I don't believe mine have changed at all. I was always pro-choice though I have always believed that 24 weeks is too late unless there is medical reason for not going to term (ie serious health issues relating to mother or baby).

I am a Father and I am also Pro-Choice, however it would not be my choice if one was offered to me (except in certain circumstances).

Gilly · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:21

steve-h said:
Some people have that opinion, which they FORCE onto other people... yes.

You used the word allowed. I took that to mean in lawful terms. It is not an opinion.

steve-h said:
There's no absolute right and wrong, but that would be a whole different situation than the one we're talking about.

How is it a whole different situation? Both are unlawful. Both are murder.

We do have absolute right and wrong. Lawful and unlawful.

Castiel said:
I am a Father and I am also Pro-Choice, however it would not be my choice if one was offered to me (except in certain circumstances).

Oh I'm not for a second saying it would be my choice just because I'm pro choice.

RDM · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:22

Curio said:
Parents - how did your views on abortion change once you had kids? Genuinely interested.

It affirmed my pro-choice viewpoint.

Burnsy2023 · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:29

Gilly said:
You used the word allowed. I took that to mean in lawful terms. It is not an opinion.

Suicide isn't illegal.

413x · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:31

Originally Posted by Fluttershy View Post
If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.

id like to see that hold up in court as defense

Gilly · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:35

Burnsy2023 said:
Suicide isn't illegal.

I thought it was, though the Suicide Act stopped those attempting to commit suicide being prosecuted?

DanielMMS · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:44

Gilly said:
I thought it was, though the Suicide Act stopped those attempting to commit suicide being prosecuted?

No. The Suicide Act effectively repealed any and all laws that made suicide a criminal act.

Kazz · 18 Sep 2012 at 15:47

Hah, all these boys and men on here against abortion at any stage, it's like a Republican convention

.

Kotu · 18 Sep 2012 at 16:09

I think she would have been better off with psychiatric help over prison time.

Richie · 18 Sep 2012 at 16:09

Burnsy2023 said:
Suicide isn't illegal.

Gilly said:
I thought it was, though the Suicide Act stopped those attempting to commit suicide being prosecuted?

Suicide is not illegal. Besides, who are you going to prosecute when the "offender" is dead?

ATTEMPTED suicide is not illegal in itself however charges of Breach of the Peace can be libelled against the person dependant on the circumstances e.g. hanging themselves in front of people etc. In reality, the person is normally dealt with under the Mental Health Act as a more appropriate measure.

On topic - I have no idea why people are saying she committed murder. Legally she did not, hence why she was not convicted of murder and hence part of the reason for the low sentence.... I mean who gets 8 years for Murder?

Edit: she was found guilty of "Administering drugs or using instruments to procure abortion." which is contrary to s58 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/crossheading/attempts-to-procure-abortion

Gilly · 18 Sep 2012 at 16:12

I can't actually find a statement that says what she was convicted of. The judge mentioned murder though.

Richie · 18 Sep 2012 at 16:16

Gilly said:
I can't actually find a statement that says what she was convicted of. The judge mentioned murder though.

The defendant pleaded guilty in July to administering a poison with intent to procure a miscarriage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-19621675 (para.11)

The judge said Catt would have been charged with murder if the baby had been born a few days later and she had then killed him.

...

Catt, of Sherburn-in-Elmet, North Yorkshire, pleaded guilty in July to administering a poison with intent to procure a miscarriage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...week-of-pregnancy-jailed-for-eight-years.html (para.9 then para.13)

LizardKing · 18 Sep 2012 at 16:16

Richie said:
On topic - I have no idea why people are saying she committed murder. Legally she did not, hence why she was not convicted of murder and hence part of the reason for the low sentence.... I mean who gets 8 years for Murder?

Edit: she was found guilty of "Administering drugs or using instruments to procure abortion." which is contrary to s58 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/crossheading/attempts-to-procure-abortion

Would they be able to charge for murder having not been able to find the body to diagnose cause of death?
The drug she used would only have induced labour, having gone full term that baby should have been fine.

You could ask if it was still born as she claims why did she not just go to hospital or let them know where the body is?

Richie · 18 Sep 2012 at 16:26

All evidence pointed to her having an abortion including a previous visit to an abortion clinic that determined she was too late, her computer search history for late abortions and the purchase of the drugs from India to enable the abortion.

Without a body, the CPS would have struggled to prove murder so better to go with the LEGALLY lesser charge to get a conviction rather than her being acquitted as it was easier to prove.