Afghanistan - 20 years on

FlightRadar24 showing a couple of US aircraft have just departed this morning, though a Turkish Boeing 777 had been sat at the end of the runway for a while before being turned back to make way for the said US aircraft. I just can't imagine what's happening on the ground at Kabul International Airport.
 
Concrete said:
Lol at the people blaming Trump for this.

You wanted Bidden in power, you got him (and his cabal) no refunds. This is just the first 8 months so who knows where he will kick off the next forever war.
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Was it Biden that released 5000 members of the Taliban when he wasn’t president? Both are to blame for this.
 
deuse said:
Just goes to show you know very little on what your on about.

Hint. It's all about the CIA. Please do your home work or live in the US for a few years.
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The people labelled 'CIA' are quite clearly the director William J Burns, and deputy director David Cohen.

Please do elaborate about how this outed some important people, when their photos and job titles are on Wikipedia.
 
I must say some of these young Taliban lads are very attractive, I think we should we poach them for modelling contracts in the UK. A little shave and some posing lessons and they'll be all over Instagram.
 
VincentHanna said:
The people labelled 'CIA' are quite clearly the director William J Burns, and deputy director David Cohen.

Please do elaborate about how this outed some important people, when their photos and job titles are on Wikipedia.
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You still don't get it.
I gave you a clue.

Sorry but I don't spoon feed people. Go do some home work.
Or know what you're talking about before posting.
 
byeo said:
FlightRadar24 showing a couple of US aircraft have just departed this morning, though a Turkish Boeing 777 had been sat at the end of the runway for a while before being turned back to make way for the said US aircraft. I just can't imagine what's happening on the ground at Kabul International Airport.
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Looks like there's a lot of European Military airlift on it way this morning too; Austrian, French and German airlift along with a shed load more USAF planes over Europe/The Med heading in the direction of the Middle East.
 
omnomnom said:
Was it Biden that released 5000 members of the Taliban when he wasn’t president? Both are to blame for this.
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Blaming either Trump or Biden for Bush starting an aimless war seems off the mark. The allies had no idea what they were doing and without any clear long term mission, and with their relationship with the local population undermined by the idiocy of the War on Drugs, this was always an exercise doomed to failure.

In any case a transition of power to the Taliban is a better outcome than a descent into civil war. I don't think Trump intended that but he did help achieve it.
 
Mr Jack said:
Blaming either Trump or Biden for Bush\Blair starting an aimless war seems off the mark. The allies had no idea what they were doing and without any clear long term mission, and with their relationship with the local population undermined by the idiocy of the War on Drugs, this was always an exercise doomed to failure.

In any case a transition of power to the Taliban is a better outcome than a descent into civil war. I don't think Trump intended that but he did help achieve it.
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Mr Jack said:
Blaming either Trump or Biden for Bush starting an aimless war seems off the mark. The allies had no idea what they were doing and without any clear long term mission, and with their relationship with the local population undermined by the idiocy of the War on Drugs, this was always an exercise doomed to failure.

In any case a transition of power to the Taliban is a better outcome than a descent into civil war. I don't think Trump intended that but he did help achieve it.
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It was pretty clear in 2001 that there was no long term clear idea on what they wanted to do; and they doubled down with that in Iraq.

I've argued for years that in some of these countries it was better to leave a regime we don't like in charge that could actually keep a country together rather than ending up in a situation where we've had different tribes and religious groups fighting each other; in Afghan the mission should have been Al-Qaeda out / Bin Laden hunted and then mission over; if we'd had to go back in to bomb camps, etc then so be it.
 
Everyone knew it was a rotten deal for the Afgans, Trump just wanted out and didn't care at all about the consequences.

Biden on the other hand could have stopped this, it would have meant sending in more troops however, which many expected him to do. It's more shocking that he openly lied about the situation in Afghanistan.
 
chrismscotland said:
Looks like there's a lot of European Military airlift on it way this morning too; Austrian, French and German airlift along with a shed load more USAF planes over Europe/The Med heading in the direction of the Middle East.
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I've spotted three US Stratotankers to the South of Italy which departed Mildenhall early this morning. I assume they're en-route to Kabul..
 
Semple said:
Can't see a single person just walking, that shows the absolute fear the Afghani people have.
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They should have put up a fight then.

ebilcake said:
Everyone knew it was a rotten deal for the Afgans, Trump just wanted out and didn't care at all about the consequences.

Biden on the other hand could have stopped this, it would have meant sending in more troops however, which many expected him to do. It's more shocking that he openly lied about the situation in Afghanistan.
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The army and the people needed to fight back, the taliban were less than 100,000. Massive fail if they really didn't want taliban rule.
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58228190

"...The Foreign Office has advised more than 4,000 British citizens thought to be in Afghanistan to leave.
About 600 British troops have been sent to Afghanistan to help evacuate UK nationals, as well as Afghan interpreters and other staff who worked for the UK, as part of Operation Pitting.
British forces have already helped hundreds of UK nationals leave Afghanistan
Mr Wallace said the government "will try our very best" to get all those eligible out of Afghanistan by 31 August or sooner.
"If we can manage to keep the airport running in the way we are putting in place our people to deliver then I'm confident that by the end of the month we could get everyone out and actually hopefully sooner."
He added that some people would be left behind, for example those not currently in Kabul, but stressed the British evacuation programme was "open-ended" with no time-limit...."

I would be absolutely bricking if I was still there and I read that very non-committal and woolly statement. I guess it's all happened a bit too quickly for people to really register how hairy it could be for them. Two weeks is a long time...
 
ebilcake said:
Biden on the other hand could have stopped this, it would have meant sending in more troops however, which many expected him to do.
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Biden has long opposed US troops in Afghanistan, I'm not sure why you'd have expected him to put more troops in and, in any case, doing so would have been against Biden's central theme of restoring the reputation of the US as a trustworthy partner. President Trump made a deal with the Taliban, which means the US made a deal with the Taliban, which means that President Biden will honour that deal.

It's more shocking that he openly lied about the situation in Afghanistan.
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Did he lie? Or was he just wrong. A consistent theme ever since Iraq War I is that the West consistently over-estimates the ability of Middle East state armies.
 
AndyT said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58228190

"...The Foreign Office has advised more than 4,000 British citizens thought to be in Afghanistan to leave.
About 600 British troops have been sent to Afghanistan to help evacuate UK nationals, as well as Afghan interpreters and other staff who worked for the UK, as part of Operation Pitting.
British forces have already helped hundreds of UK nationals leave Afghanistan
Mr Wallace said the government "will try our very best" to get all those eligible out of Afghanistan by 31 August or sooner.
"If we can manage to keep the airport running in the way we are putting in place our people to deliver then I'm confident that by the end of the month we could get everyone out and actually hopefully sooner."
He added that some people would be left behind, for example those not currently in Kabul, but stressed the British evacuation programme was "open-ended" with no time-limit...."

I would be absolutely bricking if I was still there and I read that very non-committal and woolly statement. I guess it's all happened a bit too quickly for people to really register how hairy it could be for them.
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Over two more weeks, if I was in Kabul I'd be bricking it, that's a lifetime given how fast they've all but taken the Capital. I have a bad feeling it'll be a matter of time before the airfield receives attacks. I understand there's safehouses dotted around but even so, getting to the airport would be a mission in itself.
 
Mr Jack said:
Did he lie? Or was he just wrong. A consistent theme ever since Iraq War I is that the West consistently over-estimates the ability of Middle East state armies.
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Personally I don't think he lied; I suspect the American Intelligence agencies have just reverted to form though; under-estimating the Taliban but also massively over-estimating the capability and willingness to fight of the Afghan National Army.
Its almost like they've just looked at 300,000 v 100,000 and assumed numbers will win out; we all know that's not necessarily how it works in combat.
 
Mr Jack said:
Blaming either Trump or Biden for Bush starting an aimless war seems off the mark. The allies had no idea what they were doing and without any clear long term mission, and with their relationship with the local population undermined by the idiocy of the War on Drugs, this was always an exercise doomed to failure.

In any case a transition of power to the Taliban is a better outcome than a descent into civil war. I don't think Trump intended that but he did help achieve it.
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This.

Also, stating the outcome would have been different if Trump was still in power is clearly nonsensical when this is one of those rare times when Biden's and Trump's desires were in alignment. (Different motives but same outcome)
 
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