Afghanistan - 20 years on

Reports of up to 5 civilians killed at Kabul Airport; although it seems unclear if they were trampled or shot; also reports that US Troops had to fire into the air in an attempt at crowd control - hopefully not linked
 
So does this still class a victory? Or an admission that some want an indefinite occupation with no long term planning, shifting goals and a general attitude that we're the ones who should be fixing the country.

What a waste of lives to circle back to the same point.
 
doodah said:
So does this still class a victory? Or an admission that some want an indefinite occupation with no long term planning, shifting goals and a general attitude that we're the ones who should be fixing the country.

What a waste of lives to circle back to the same point.
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Its certainly a victory for the Taliban, they are in a far stronger position now than they were 20 years ago.
 
AndyT said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58228190

"...The Foreign Office has advised more than 4,000 British citizens thought to be in Afghanistan to leave.
About 600 British troops have been sent to Afghanistan to help evacuate UK nationals, as well as Afghan interpreters and other staff who worked for the UK, as part of Operation Pitting.
British forces have already helped hundreds of UK nationals leave Afghanistan
Mr Wallace said the government "will try our very best" to get all those eligible out of Afghanistan by 31 August or sooner.
"If we can manage to keep the airport running in the way we are putting in place our people to deliver then I'm confident that by the end of the month we could get everyone out and actually hopefully sooner."
He added that some people would be left behind, for example those not currently in Kabul, but stressed the British evacuation programme was "open-ended" with no time-limit...."

I would be absolutely bricking if I was still there and I read that very non-committal and woolly statement. I guess it's all happened a bit too quickly for people to really register how hairy it could be for them. Two weeks is a long time...
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I guess you can never make guarantees. Especially as it's unlikely the Taliban will just allow US/UK troops to move around the country to pick up any loose remaining stragglers.

Frankly the writing has been on the wall for several months, you'd be a right idiot to remain somewhere remote until the last minute.

byeo said:
Over two more weeks, if I was in Kabul I'd be bricking it, that's a lifetime given how fast they've all but taken the Capital. I have a bad feeling it'll be a matter of time before the airfield receives attacks. I understand there's safehouses dotted around but even so, getting to the airport would be a mission in itself.
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I don't think the Taliban would be stupid enough to start an attack on the airport. For a start there's a real heavy military presence there and with a lot more firepower than the Taliban have. The military there are likely to be under defensive orders only, so why wake a sleeping beast. The main difference will be when the Taliban decide to no longer offer free passage to Afghanis who want to leave the country.
 
Incredible images coming out of Kabul airport which include Apache helicopters attempting to clear the runway, followed by young Afghan men clinging on to a C-17 and then subsequently falling to their deaths seconds after take-off.

Utter chaos.
 
The goal for America in Afghanistan wasn't really to remove the Taliban, it was to dismantle the Al'Qaeda training camps and capture or kill Bin Laden, they've done both of those things and don't want to spend more money and American lives in Afghanistan as long as the Taliban don't allow terrorist training camps - which quite obviously isn't in their best interest. The problems in Afghanistan are cultural, they're basically a bunch of backwards religious savages living in a dusty Desert. It's unfortunate that like in a lot similar places there are intelligent decent people living amongst a bunch of animals. Corruption is absolutely RIFE which is the main reason nothing could be changed by America being there, again cultural, they have absolutely no interest in running a country, they all simply want to line their own pockets and don't care at all about their fellow citizens.
 
Mr Jack said:
Biden has long opposed US troops in Afghanistan, I'm not sure why you'd have expected him to put more troops in and, in any case, doing so would have been against Biden's central theme of restoring the reputation of the US as a trustworthy partner. President Trump made a deal with the Taliban, which means the US made a deal with the Taliban, which means that President Biden will honour that deal.

Did he lie? Or was he just wrong. A consistent theme ever since Iraq War I is that the West consistently over-estimates the ability of Middle East state armies.
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Well that was the opinion of a lot of people prior to winning the election, the forever war, or maybe that's still to come. Hopefully he keeps following Trump on foreign policy and keeps the US and by extension the UK out of any conflicts we have no business getting involved with.

Biden's "America is back" Tweet certainly didn't age well.

Their Intel can't be this bad, somebody is lying here. They had people on the ground training the Afgans for the years, they must have had a good grasp on how capable and how willing they were to fight, if not then what have they been doing all these years? :eek:
 
Roar87 said:
The goal for America in Afghanistan wasn't really to remove the Taliban, it was to dismantle the Al'Qaeda training camps and capture or kill Bin Laden, they've done both of those things and don't want to spend more money and American lives in Afghanistan as long as the Taliban don't allow terrorist training camps - which quite obviously isn't in their best interest. The problems in Afghanistan are cultural, they're basically a bunch of backwards religious savages living in a dusty Desert. It's unfortunate that like in a lot similar places there are intelligent decent people living amongst a bunch of animals.
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Is that similar to yourself living in Leeds?
 
rhobbyh said:
Is that similar to yourself living in Leeds?
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No Leeds is a nice city full of mostly decent people, having travelled around the UK it's one of the nicest cities. Liverpool and Manchester are also nice. Afghanistan is basically a medieval country except people have AK-47's and technology imported from other countries, they rape young boys, extortion is normal and expected, women are treated like animals, I'm sorry this seems to offend you but it's absolute fact.

https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI

This is a good documentary on Afghanistan
 
Job done really, Bin la din dead (shame on you Pakistan) The camps gone.

Just let it be, will be plenty of drones getting surveillance of everything and it's probably the most highly mapped area of the world in terms of military requirements.
 
SPG said:
Job done really, Bin la din dead (shame on you Pakistan) The camps gone.

Just let it be, will be plenty of drones getting surveillance of everything and it's probably the most highly mapped area of the world in terms of military requirements.
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It's all coming back.

Withdrawal of forces had to happen , and its a bit late imo. The cluster **** is the way it has been done.
 
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Mr Jack said:
Biden has long opposed US troops in Afghanistan,
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Where did you get that from?

"Biden did not oppose the US invasion of Afghanistan. As a US senator from Delaware, he joined his Senate colleagues in a unanimous vote in support of the 2001 resolution that authorized the use of military force against "nations, organizations, or persons" President George W. Bush determined were behind the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001."
 
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