Soldato
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No I absolutely think leaving is the best thing to do. If not now, when?
Afghanistan - 20 years on
- Thread starter GreatAuk
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No I absolutely think leaving is the best thing to do. If not now, when?
Afghan army was still largely deployed configured to US interests after the US had gone, especially as their numbers and readiness was well below the supposed level they should have been reconfigured to protect Afghan interests - the US had plenty of influence on that. Which is one of the reasons they simply folded as it left many elements outflanked and unsupported.
As above it is debatable if it would have made much difference but the US basically left them with their pants down even when they could have done something.
The US has shown when it comes to it they are an unreliable ally - even many NATO countries have been left scrambling in this mess and some like the Indian contingent, etc. will suffer.
I'm curious I hadn't paid attention to the withdrawl.
How did they execute it?
I have heard people say that they rug pulled on the Afghan army. What actions did they take that makes this a rug pull?
So then why is Trump to blame? You wanted to leave, as do the American people, Trump set that in motion, but somehow he is to blame?
As you said...
There's a difference between breaking a deal made by the US President, and changing domestic policy or legislation.
Soldato
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Yes he was an idiot to say that. I've no idea what possessed his to make such a stupid statement. However clearly the Taliban walking back into power was always going to happen.
Yes and no, depends what you're referring to - a bad handover wasn't great, cutting and running from Bagram etc.. but there is more to it than that clearly, that wouldn't have changed the overall outcome I don't think, but perhaps alleviated some of the short term chaos - rather than scramble to fly troops in etc.. Trying to prevent the Taliban from taking over would require a heck of a lot and perhaps a rather different approach, not just sticking heads in the sand and mostly holding only urban areas while the Taliban are free to roam around the countryside and the Afghan government just comes across as a puppet regime.
Nope.
Soldato
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Yes he was an idiot to say that. I've no idea what possessed his to make such a stupid statement. However clearly the Taliban walking back into power was always going to happen.
Soldato
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Trump negotiated with the Taliban as equals. He put this in motion, there was a deal to pull all US troops out. This is what happens when you pull all US troops out. The idea that the Afghan army was going to hold the Taliban is a joke. They swapped sides in large parts of the country with barely a shot fired. So yes I support leaving because if not now when? but there is going to be blame thrown around for what was inevitable and some of that blame should fall on Trump as well as Biden. Is it fair, no probably not but this is on both administrations.
Soldato
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I can't wait for all the new grooming gangs and jihadi cells when they start rocking up here.
- You want out.
- Trump wants out.
- Trump signs the agreement to get out.
- We're out.
- Blame Trump.
This is Afghanistan, the US invoked article 5 of the NATO treaty when they were attacked on September 11th 2001, we had an obligation to defend our ally. If we were attacked and triggered article 5 we would expect them to do the same.
Soldato
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Nothing other than US forces on the ground and air support would have prevented this. Which is basically the US not leaving. I honestly think what is happening was always going to happen. Its terrible for those there that want a different way of life but its not on us to enforce regime change. In 12 months time this will be old news, the world will have moved on.
Soldato
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Did you even read what I wrote? I don't blame Biden or Trump personally, they both wanted out. However they are and will be blamed for what is happening there and so the blame should fall on both. Obama deserves some blame for not getting out when he was in charge. Bush deserves it for invading in the first place. Is that clear enough?
Soldato
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It doesn't matter who arranged the withdrwal, when it was, or how it was done. As soon as external influence was gone they will return to their mean.
Obama acted according to the situation on the ground - a lot of what Trump did was basically Obama's plans just implemented in fits and starts - the years since have not been used well.
Don't twist things or try to change the subject.
1-Who was in charge of the deal after Trump left=Biden
2-Who was the only man in the world that could change the deal=Biden
3-Who got it all wrong 36 days ago=Biden
4-Who blames everyone else but themselves= People who don't live in the US and can't vote and libs.
5- Who got the security wrong for the pull out and left people to die=Biden
The list is endless.
All Biden had to say to the Taliban is that they need more time to get the people out.
And tell the US people you have said it.
Because if the poop hit the fan(which it did) everyone and his dog would have blamed the Taliban.
May I ask why you defend a person in a country that you don't live in or can vote for?
As said. He could have changed it.
The people in the US are going mad at Biden over this.
Soldato
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Wonder how 'friendly' they'd be if she removed the khimar and simply wore what she did the previous day?