Afghanistan - 20 years on

[ltron]

A fascinating documentary presented by Rory Stewart about Afghanistan which is being repeated on BBC 2. We have been repeating the same mistakes over hundreds of years with the same result, defeat: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jk6ch

You can't export democracy through the barrel of a gun. The change has to come from within and through diplomatic means.

 

[GGizmo]

A fascinating documentary presented by Rory Stewart about Afghanistan which is being repeated on BBC 2. We have been repeating the same mistakes over hundreds of years with the same result, defeat: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jk6ch

You can't export democracy through the barrel of a gun. The change has to come from within and through diplomatic means.

I think there comes a point when we have to start thinking is this being done on purpose for other reasons.

I was just reading the story of the comedian the Taliban killed. I think the most dangerous aspect about the Taliban is they can't control themselves.

 

[Rroff]

the apaches at HKIA wont be able to be packed up and transported out quickly so they will have to blow them up
they cant mid air refuel either and its too far to fly them out

the article is about the state department ch-46's which will also be left behind (and disabled somehow hopefully?) - these are the helicopters that are "out of date"

Might be wrong but I seem to recall for ferrying the armaments can be removed to fit 3 or 4 external fuel tanks extending the range considerably.

 

[FoxEye]

You can't export democracy through the barrel of a gun. The change has to come from within and through diplomatic means.

The Taliban won't allow any kind of change, they want to take the country back to the 5th or 6th century AD

Not that I'm disagreeing with the first part, but the Taliban will have no troubles enforcing their values through the barrel of a gun. No problems at all.

 

[Malevolence]

Person on no-fly list flown to UK during Kabul evacuation

The individual, who was identified as being on the watchlist on arrival in the UK, was later not deemed a person of interest after investigation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58311964

I don't know about you but, given the governments track record on allowing all manner of foreign criminals in to roam about and commit crime I don't trust them. Feel free to quote this post when this individual is found to have a.) raped numerous women because he claims he didn't know it was against the law or b.) gone on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

 

[StriderX]

Person on no-fly list flown to UK during Kabul evacuation



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58311964

I don't know about you but, given the governments track record on allowing all manner of foreign criminals in to roam about and commit crime I don't trust them. Feel free to quote this post when this individual is found to have a.) raped numerous women because he claims he didn't know it was against the law or b.) gone on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

Why didn't they release the reason for this person being on the list? Surely they have it next to the name in a description box of some sort...

 

[StriderX]

I think there comes a point when we have to start thinking is this being done on purpose for other reasons.

I was just reading the story of the comedian the Taliban killed. I think the most dangerous aspect about the Taliban is they can't control themselves.

No thinking required, it was 90% profits for defense companies, 9% due to Al Qaeda (ignoring the possibility that this group wasn't itself a result of some CIA black-op) and 1% legitimately caring about the oppressed people's of Afghanistan.

 

[Chris Wilson]

No thinking required, it was 90% profits for defense companies, 9% due to Al Qaeda (ignoring the possibility that this group wasn't itself a result of some CIA black-op) and 1% legitimately caring about the oppressed people's of Afghanistan.

It must be hell for you living in a country whose whole modus operandi you so despise. Are you unable to emigrate for some reason?

So many of your posts denigrate one aspect or another of the English way of life, our financial system, the government, housing or whatever, I have to wonder what hold England has over you.

 

[StriderX]

It must be hell for you living in a country whose whole modus operandi you so despise. Are you unable to emigrate for some reason?

So many of your posts denigrate one aspect or another of the English way of life, our financial system, the government, housing or whatever, I have to wonder what hold England has over you.

Do you think it's a good thing that we expend huge amounts of taxes on providing socialism for arms manufacturers?

Contrary to the patriot's 'end of history' shtick that so often stagnates a people, there is a lot to improve about this country and highlighting that is not unpatriotic.

 

[The Running Man]

Person on no-fly list flown to UK during Kabul evacuation



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58311964

I don't know about you but, given the governments track record on allowing all manner of foreign criminals in to roam about and commit crime I don't trust them. Feel free to quote this post when this individual is found to have a.) raped numerous women because he claims he didn't know it was against the law or b.) gone on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

Let's wait for a story in 6 months time about how an afghan national attacks someone and it turns out we on a no fly list...

 

[Andrew_McP]

A fascinating documentary presented by Rory Stewart about Afghanistan which is being repeated on BBC 2. We have been repeating the same mistakes over hundreds of years with the same result, defeat: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jk6ch

Indeed. It really helped put modern interventions into perspective. It's hard for us to stand back and remember that, despite what we feel to be advances in understanding, communications, and 'cooperation', every day of modern human existence is as much an experiment as anything that's happened in history.

I watched "China's Magic Weapon" as well. It was a thought-provoking and rather unsettling evening, overall.

 

[Johno please?]

You can't export democracy through the barrel of a gun. The change has to come from within and through diplomatic means.

It worked in Iraq, it will always be messy but fascist tyrants are not interested in giving up their control through diplomacy.

See these guys are still holding out, good old northern alliance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58239156

 

[Puzzled]

Indeed. It really helped put modern interventions into perspective. It's hard for us to stand back and remember that, despite what we feel to be advances in understanding, communications, and 'cooperation', every day of modern human existence is as much an experiment as anything that's happened in history.

I watched "China's Magic Weapon" as well. It was a thought-provoking and rather unsettling evening, overall.

Only saw a bit of part 1, will have to watch the rest later.

I found the comment about how countries entering Afghanistan has never been a problem, it's getting out that has always been the hard part quite apt.

Also Rory used the comparison of the British handing back power in the 19th century (giving up basically) to be like the US handing the country back to the Taliban after 10 years of fighting. Oh dear

 

[StriderX]

It worked in Iraq, it will always be messy but fascist tyrants are not interested in giving up their control through diplomacy.

See these guys are still holding out, good old northern alliance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58239156

Didn't work in Iran which I would argue has a stronger national identity than Iraq. I suppose we'll see whether Iraq can hold out as pressures in the Middle-East rise with the effects of climate change (water shortages have already contributed quite a bit to instability) and being surrounding on all sides by competing powers with Turkey to the north, Iran to the East, Saudi Arabia to the South and Israel to the West.

 

[Johno please?]

No thinking required, it was 90% profits for defense companies, 9% due to Al Qaeda (ignoring the possibility that this group wasn't itself a result of some CIA black-op) and 1% legitimately caring about the oppressed people's of Afghanistan.

lol, Do people really believe this crap still? The main reason Al Qaeda exists is Islam, its not even a hard concept to grasp the ideology is present in dozens of countrys around the globe from the Phillipines to Mali.

But I forget you're on of the "islam has nothing to do with islam" folks arent you. Like that Labour MP the other day saying The Taliban are "not islam", yea it must be all the bibles or richard dawkins theyre reading.

 

[StriderX]

lol, Do people really believe this crap still? The main reason Al Qaeda exists is Islam, its not even a hard concept to grasp the ideology is present in dozens of countrys around the globe from the Phillipines to Mali.

But I forget you're on of the "islam has nothing to do with islam" folks arent you. Like that Labour MP the other day saying The Taliban are "not islam", yea it must be all the bibles or richard dawkins theyre reading.

I know it has to do with Islam, i'm just saying that it's not impossible that there may have been some extra influence involved in making it happen. I highly doubt it could have been belligerent considering what we're dealing with today with the withdrawal retreat from Afghanistan, a series of actions compounding into a greater incompetence seems like the likely culprit if indeed there were other actors involved.

Since the US government continues to stonewall access to documents pertaining to Saudi Arabia's involvement I can't say that I'm confident there wasn't something to hide.

 

[Neil79]

Some of these refugee stories are a bit suspect to me, especially ones currently living in lavish hotels. One guy on the news was talking about his daughter being killed, his wife being beaten. Yet during the entire time he was smiling and chuckling. Sorry but I'd find that very hard to talk about if it was me.

 

[Surveyor]

Some of these refugee stories are a bit suspect to me, especially ones currently living in lavish hotels. One guy on the news was talking about his daughter being killed, his wife being beaten. Yet during the entire time he was smiling and chuckling. Sorry but I'd find that very hard to talk about if it was me.

People deal with tragic events in different ways. Which lavish hotels are the refugees living in?

 

[RoboCod]

It must be hell for you living in a country whose whole modus operandi you so despise. Are you unable to emigrate for some reason?

So many of your posts denigrate one aspect or another of the English way of life, our financial system, the government, housing or whatever, I have to wonder what hold England has over you.

I wouldn't say he despises, it's right to criticise and question everything though.

 

[kinetic747]

The original deadline for leaving was May, so I'm a little confused as to why everything has been left until the last minute, or have we been bringing people out since May?