tbf you can't say that as truth. My mum died recently a week after going to the hospital and being told she was ok. She wasn't. My aunty tried to seek blame/justice (ew) and hold the hospital accountable. I told her what she was doing was painful to me, counter-productive and flat out odd. Then again I am trying to move on with my life as dwelling on it is just painful and does not make sense to me.
Alan Davies comments
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tbf you can't say that as truth. My mum died recently a week after going to the hospital and being told she was ok. She wasn't. My aunty tried to seek blame/justice (ew) and hold the hospital accountable. I told her what she was doing was painful to me, counter-productive and flat out odd. Then again I am trying to move on with my life as dwelling on it is just painful and does not make sense to me.
I never said Liverpool fans were murdered at Hillsborough I was taking your example and applying it to Hillsborough. Liverpool fans died on the pitch as Hillsborough - you must accept that?
There are many questions but I'll highlight two that interest me personally:
- Emergency service were stopped by Police from entering the ground and offering medical attention?
- Why was a cut off time of 3:15 to declare you died at Hillsborough?
You can read further here if you are interested.
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They would be told how to do it. Refusing to play is a fair output, as long as they can't force the FA to move fixtures.
I didn't know they died on the pitch, no.
There are many questions but I'll highlight two that interest me personally:
- Emergency service were stopped by Police from entering the ground and offering medical attention?
- Why was a cut off time of 3:15 to declare you died at Hillsborough?
You can read further here if you are interested.
I'll have a read
i've said some people deserve answers but people deserve answers to a lot of things in life
playing the victim is ALL liverpool have done this season, largely down to dalglish. this is simply another in a long list.
and as for home truths, you said it, not me. let's see what the inquest unearths. all i will say is, maybe some stuff is better off buried.
The club haven't forced anyone to move the fixture but they do request it. If you have a problem with that - surely it should be with the FA rather than Liverpool?
There are many questions but I'll highlight two that interest me personally:
- Emergency service were stopped by Police from entering the ground and offering medical attention?
- Why was a cut off time of 3:15 to declare you died at Hillsborough?
You can read further here if you are interested.
Why would the answer to either of these provide closure?
I think it's unreasonable to expect that to happen forever. I'm playing devil's advocate for the future more than stating Liverpool are out of order ATM.
It's 1 day in 365. There is no logical reason why Liverpool not playing on that date would be cause a problem that couldn't be resolved. All 90 odd Football League clubs could refuse to play on a certain date and it still wouldn't cause a problem.
Caporegime
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It sets a dangerous precedent. What qualifies as bad enough that a club is allowed to do that?
What if a club refuses to play throughout February?
Fair enough - a while back the date fell on a Champions League night and UEFA didn't seem to want to change their fixtures around at first and it sounded like the club would refuse to play. The memorial service does attract media attention and is used to promote the Justice for 96 campaign. If all the information surrounding Hillsborough are released there may come a time when people are more open to the club playing on that date but I think it's still a long time away for most people.
Why would the answer to either of these provide closure?
If your loved one died and emergency services were prevented from giving them medial treatment would you want to know or would you bury you dead and be able to move on?
Requesting not to play on a single date and refusing to play throughout an entire month is somewhat different. One is reasonable request that would not put anybody else out, the other is unreasonable and is very likely to put others out.
I have never been in that situation so I don't know, however I'd hope that I would realise that it won't solve anything or bring my loved one back and be able to move on. Certainly 23 years later.
The whole Hillsborough thing annoys me. It was incredibly tragic, but the way mud is thrown about is just awful.
Multiple people are in the wrong:
The policing was bad, which force? Who did what? It will never come out now.
Fans where trying to force their way in (A lot without paying? Who knows.)
They cant share the blame, god forbid, so it rages on and on. IMO it would be better to play on that day, A decent reminder of the poor people that lost their lives and a fitting tribute.
Multiple people are in the wrong:
The policing was bad, which force? Who did what? It will never come out now.
Fans where trying to force their way in (A lot without paying? Who knows.)
They cant share the blame, god forbid, so it rages on and on. IMO it would be better to play on that day, A decent reminder of the poor people that lost their lives and a fitting tribute.
People will still have died and although some / all deaths may have been preventable i don't see how it changes anything regardless of what comes out of the inquest. If anything it will give people even more to rant about. Yes it was a tragedy but it was 23 years ago and i think is plenty of time for people to think about moving on.
Soldato
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Yeah I agree. Yes it is a tragic event and people do need time to morn and support getting over it but also after nearly a quarter of a century you need to be thinking about moving on. Yes, Alan Davies came over as an insensitive prat but he does raise a valid point (albeit totally in an inappropriate way). 'Pool should play the game, minutes silence in remembrance and respect, and those players/club staff who wish to go and pay their respects can do so after the game.
How is this playing the victim? We asked not to play on this date ever since the tragedy and now because some bloke off QI brings it up we are playing the victim
Or maybe it isn't, no one has been held accountable for Hillsborough, if there is someone/people they should be, but interesting stance you have not very surprising though.
If they refused to play on 15th of April if the match was set that date they are not being told how to do it, they are mourning how they want which should never be challenged in the first place as long as it is reasonable. One day a year is very reasonable.
IINM you have kids Cliffy, put yourself in Anne Williams position. It has been decided for her that her son was dead or brain dead by 3.15pm and therefore the decision not to allow medical help onto the pitch did not lead to her sons death. There is witness testimony from an on duty SWPC (female PCSO) that at 4pm her son was alive and actually calling for his mother before later dying due to a lack of very basic medical attention.
Would you not want those responsible for not allowing the medical help onto the pitch to be held accountable? And would you not be aggrieved with those who put in place the 3.15pm cut off time in order to stop those responsible being held accountable?
In your opinion it is - not in the opinion of those who have lost a loved one. No disrespect to you but I think it is up to them to decide how long and in the manner they wish to grieve. The club allows the memorial to take place at Anfield and the ground is usually full. I see no reason to change that because some people think the mourning period is over.
Liverpool have been asked to play on Saturday - they were not asked to play on Sunday - it is an important distinction.