Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

[Abraxaz1]

Good, as the production armourer all weapon systems on site are under her envelope of responsibility.

The fact she let them use a prop for fun shooting and didn’t apply basic discharge and safety procedures.

The quality of reporting throughout the hole affair has been poor.

 

[Dis86]

Why would a production company do a diversity hire? They are generally pump and dump outfits that get wound down after each film.

Why would any company? To tick boxes and make the individuals involved with ticking those boxes look AWESOME.

 

[dlockers]

Why would any company? To tick boxes and make the individuals involved with ticking those boxes look AWESOME.

Aye but not for a pump and dump. Probably just the only person who applied for such a boring role/better than being a runner lol.

 

[Dis86]

@dowie he never did send me those winning numbers

 

[Jokester]

Whether it was the case of not here I’m not sure, but getting access to investment funding can often depend on DEI type initiatives.

 

[dlockers]

Whether it was the case of not here I’m not sure, but getting access to investment funding can often depend on DEI type initiatives.

Ah fair yeah. Maybe an easy one to offer to any tom dick or harry with a brain (or denise, sarah or shelly).

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Why would a production company do a diversity hire? They are generally pump and dump outfits that get wound down after each film.

Unions are big in the industry and I believe a number of them make demands about this stuff.

 

[Grim5]

Good, as the production armourer all weapon systems on site are under her envelope of responsibility.

The fact she let them use a prop for fun shooting and didn’t apply basic discharge and safety procedures.

The quality of reporting throughout the hole affair has been poor.

I have so many issues with the situation; like 1) why don't they use fake guns and 2) if they use real gun why not use blank ammo, why did they have real ammo and 3) why has the US government not legislated these safety changes

 

[Grim5]

Whether it was the case of not here I’m not sure, but getting access to investment funding can often depend on DEI type initiatives.

The way they do it; the very large investment companies rank business on a scale, let's call it a DEI index and they don't just attach acceptance of applications to the scale but also interest rate offers, so companies are incentivising to try and get their DEI score as high as possible so get access to the lowest interest rates in the market, which allows otherwise garbage production to get made which otherwise would not have with higher market costs.


The whole situation reminds me of the 2008 housing market crash, the US is always looking for stupid ways to crash their economy and giving under market rate, high risk businesses loans based on diversity and inclusion is another way they are trying to jump off the cliff again

 

[dowie]

Whether it was the case of not here I’m not sure, but getting access to investment funding can often depend on DEI type initiatives.

Certainly has been a big issue with large fund managers, they call it "ESG" which is a bit broader and covers environmental stuff too though the trend (as with DEI and woke stuff in general - see also reversals of policies by US colleges re: SATs etc..) is falling off a bit now.

There's been a bit of outcry about it by Republican politicians and also just in general it's not necessarily the case that pensioners etc.. want these huge asset managers to be turning into woke lobbyists on their behalf - if the energy sector has had bumper profits and these guys are pushing for pro-green policies etc.. then they're potentially rather at odds with their duty to their clients.

 

[Abraxaz1]

I have so many issues with the situation; like 1) why don't they use fake guns and 2) if they use real gun why not use blank ammo, why did they have real ammo and 3) why has the US government not legislated these safety changes

1) fake guns don’t have the recoil, if you look at cheap tv shows like the rookie, where they use airsoft weapons. The actors have to fake all interactions.
And it looks bad.

2) they use blanks for filming, problem is Hollywood blanks are made to look like the real deal rather than a extended brass case that. In this case they used the weapon for real round target shooting. Then they used it for filming. She didn’t preform the safety basics of dumping the ammunition and using a known source.

3) modern weapons are specifically made for filming, the weapons have a blocked barrel with porting for the gases to escape. They use a lower charge blank that allows for recoil and cycling.
This was an old weapon that was being borrowed from a collector to be used in the film.
The film industry has a very good set of safety rules around blanks, the Perspex shield she was using would stop blank brass spalling but stood no chance against a lead round.

It’s a simple case of someone in a position that should never have been there. Anyone with a once of training and common sense would have any weapon used for filming separated and under full control till after the shoot

 

[dlockers]

I have so many issues with the situation; like 1) why don't they use fake guns and 2) if they use real gun why not use blank ammo, why did they have real ammo and 3) why has the US government not legislated these safety changes

Someone posted way back, apparently the CGI isn't yet good enough to mimic a real gun shot or something?

 

[Abraxaz1]

Someone posted way back, apparently the CGI isn't yet good enough to mimic a real gun shot or something?

It’s not the cgi it’s the lack of recoil, you can’t fake how a gun feels when it goes off.
Look at the rookie for a clear example of a airsoft weapon vs something like heat.


Problem is old guns in films are borrowed and are not modified to Hollywood standards for filming.
There’s a risk assessment and it usually states the weapon should be quarantined until it’s used and after so no live rounds can be accidentally loaded

 

[mattyfez]

Hmm.. I'd Say if you can't fake recoil with a fake gun, then your are not a very good actor.

CGI can take care of the rest

 

[Rroff]

Hmm.. I'd Say if you can't fake recoil with a fake gun, then your are not a very good actor.

CGI can take care of the rest

Gun starts moving before the person holding it does, unless the actor has good understanding of gun physics it is hard to make it look right - might fool audiences in the UK but in the US where more people have firearms experience it won't be so convincing.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Hmm.. I'd Say if you can't fake recoil with a fake gun, then your are not a very good actor.

Please let us know your acting credentials

 

[dlockers]

Please let us know your acting credentials

I tried to look up his posts in Movies sub or w/e it's called and its not even on the list

 

[Feek]

Gun starts moving before the person holding it does

Exactly.

This is fairly low recoil but you can't pretend to do this and make it look realistic.

(this is me, shooting the Ruger Old Army that's in my signature, the one to the immediate left of the target)

And here's a .357 long barrel revolver with me over-reacting to the recoil in the penultimate shot.

(also as shown in my signature, the long one)

I don't think I've ever posted these videos before, they must be ten years old and my grip has changed somewhat since then.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

From earlier in the thread...





Do we still think that this was a good/well-qualified armored or was she a bit of a nepobaby/diversity hire rolled into one and completely out of her depth? hmmm

Would an ex-military SNCO or warrant officer in the positon of armourer have been too timid to assert himself on set when it came to weapons safety? Doubtful.

And where did I say she was a good/well qualified armorer? Ah yeah I never said any such thing. I just said why do you have to drag woke into everything? Its not like bad people haven't been hired before "woke", no such thing as unqualified people being hired because they are a friend or went to school with someone etc. No it all started with woke. You are obsessed with it. But hey we all carry our crosses.

Sounds like she got off lightly with that sentence considering someone is dead.

 

[dowie]

That’s because she is being mispresented and those comments are not from this current job. At this point in her career, she had enough expreince and knows how to load blanks. She was trained by an export in the field on how to load blanks.
[...]
Where it was pointed out you are wrong with facts to point out why, which you just ignored. She had 8+ years expreince with guns and training from an expert in the field working on many films before moving from assistant to full head Armourer. Any talk about diversity hire, lack of expreince, woke, is just a load of nonsense which you are known for.
[...]
All the evidence points to her being hired on merit including the quotes provided before.
[...]
Most likely yes she was hired on her expansive CV and years of expreince along with 4+ years of training by an well known export in the field and quotes from previous people working on films where people where very positive about her calling her talented, exceptional, professional. Its a pretty strong CV.

Wait a minute are you saying that all the "woke" nonsense we read earlier in the thread from the likes of Dis86 and dowie was exactly that, nonsense? Why am I not surprised.

And where did I say she was a good/well qualified armorer? Ah yeah I never said any such thing. I just said why do you have to drag woke into everything? Its not like bad people haven't been hired before "woke", no such thing as unqualified people being hired because they are a friend or went to school with someone etc.

So back then a post about how experienced and well-trained she supposedly was is seen by you as evidence for @Dis86 and myself talking nonsense. But now it's become quite apparent that she was indeed incompetent you want to pretend you didn't hold that position.

If you do now in fact hold that she was after all incompetent but previously her apparent competence and expert training was the reason for myself and Dis86 being wrong then...