Altered Carbon

Finished watching it. I'm struggling to give it more than 5 or 6/10 to be honest. I'm glad they made it but it was always a difficult task to translate it on to screen. I'm not sure how much sense it would have made if you'd never read the books because, as someone else said, the characters seemed to do things for no reason at all, probably because you don't get the 'internal narrative' from the books. I think the changes made to the plot and the changes / extensions / deletions / merges of characters from the book were all for the worse, the whole story would have made more sense if these didn't happen. I also think the Bancrofts were all played wrong. The visuals for the virtual reality sections were rubbish too.

The whole thing could have been made more coherent with some simple changes such as on screen captions saying where and when certain things were happening and maybe even a different 'filter' or screen effect for the flashbacks.

The positives were to have a cyberpunk type of world brought to life for the big screen and some of the visual effects were great.

One of the dumbest criticisms I've seen is that "it looks a lot like Blade Runner / owes a lot to Blade Runner". Well, it doesn't copy Blade Runner, it's a genre. I imagine they will wheel out this exact same point for Mute and Neuromancer. It's like saying, "Why are all these soaps set in a suburban environment?".

There was also the mention in reviews that this cost $70m which sounds a lot but not for 10+ hours of content versus a 1.5 to 3 hour movie for between $50m - $200m (BR2049 was about $150m IIRC).

VincentHanna said:
Reviews were pretty fair then? :D
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What's your point?

EDIT - That reminds me - the critic point about "whitewashing" was even more retarded than it first appeared since the one of the first scenes in the series was him in his original Japanese body and there is a decent amount of time in later episodes of him in that body. It's obvious he is "really" Japanese and not "trapped" in a white body.
 
Can't say I really had any problem following when and where thing were happening and I have no idea as to the source material - the whole other planets, etc. background was kind of dropped in unexplained but I didn't find it that hard to pickup and in some ways better, like Blade Runner, that it isn't too explained.

The first episode has a lot of play on things not being as they appeared and a ton of subtle, though thrown at the scene like Smarties which might seem a bit conflicting, symbology and foreshadowing, etc. but then most of that is just left by the wayside especially by the mid part of the series where it pretty much descends into a convoluted twaddle of conveying a simple story that you no longer care about while trying to inject some half hearted message at the end about the dangers of living too long.

I quite liked the introduction and visual aesthetic - there was quite a lot of authenticity in the little details the sets were built on, etc. - but felt really disappointed by the end.
 
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@Rroff - That's ok then. It's a difficult one for me to comment on having read the book then re-read it last week as I already knew what certain thing meant and why they were happening. I guess it probably won't appeal to a very wide audience in the same was as GoT does.
 
I get what you are saying about Blade Runner in terms of comparison - but I think if people have watched stuff like Blade Runner and Westworld (the new series), etc. they shouldn't have too much trouble figuring this out as it unfolds.
 
Only about half way through so far. It's not bad but I'm not enjoying it as much as I hoped I would. Will see how it continues. So far though I like Will Yun Lee but not rating Joel Kinnaman that much.
 
I'm pretty useless at following story lines so I've just started episode 3.
Can somebody explain in spoilers what's going on?
I know the main character is in a new body and woke up about 250 years later but what is he exactly supposed to be doing?
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I'm pretty useless at following story lines so I've just started episode 3.
Can somebody explain in spoilers what's going on?
I know the main character is in a new body and woke up about 250 years later but what is he exactly supposed to be doing?
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This is a book spoiler, there have been some changes in the series.

Kovacs is ex-army recruited to Envoys. They are the guys who's minds are sent around the human planets by needlecast (only way to send a signal/data at faster than light speeds) to put down uprisings, topple governments, etc. Because they only take their minds are downloaded into full-on super-soldier bodies, they are trained in techniques of manipulation, self-control, observation, being able to adapt to local conditions and colouring, trained to kill without mercy, impersonate others, etc. They are considered so dangerous, that if they ever leave the Envoys, they are not allowed to serve in any kind of public office, and often turn to criminality. Kovacs leaves in disgust after his battalion is all killed (real-death) in a disastrous, pointless mission at Innenin. He becomes a criminal, and is subsequently caught and put on stack for hundred of years. Your brain is put in a digital prison, and when you are let out, everyone you know is long gone.

250 years later, Kovacs mind is bought by a very rich 300 year old man on Earth (Bancroft) who wants him as an independent investigator. Bancroft killed himself and destroyed his stack, something he claims he would never do. Bancroft claims it is a murder, but having been restored from a 24 hour old backup, he can't remember what happened. The police refuse to investigate, labelling it as a suicide (though Bancroft isn't actually permanently dead). In order to get back at the police, Bancroft chooses for Kovacs to be installed in the sleeve of an ex-cop currently doing time himself - Ortega's ex boyfriend.

So Kovacs' job is to find out what happened to Bancroft, and there's obviously forces and factions trying to prevent him from finding out the truth. The problem is that as well as flashbacks on to explain Innenin, the show also has to explain what it is to be an Envoy, how Kovacs got to be one and his subsequent exit, as well as the current storyline on Earth, which seems to work much better in the book where you get Kovacs' internal monologue.
 
VincentHanna said:
Really? Any particular reason? Do you give it your total attention or are you on your phone or something?
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I have a piano keyboard and guitars in front of me while reading music, I also do the internet and then try and watch something.
I can't do one thing at a time so I miss stuff because I have the attention span of a gnat.
 
I suppose what doesn't help SexyGreyFox is that unlike other characters in the story - Kovac's narration in different time frames is done by three different actors that don't follow each other's character traits, accents, mannerisms or anything really, even one iota. Despite the actor portraying him during Envoy training is clearly the best out of three, I somehow find those flashback the most yawny, boring and exhausting to watch. It's almost feels as if I switched channels to a different series, this time set in Canada on a 10 dollar budget and it goes on and one for episodes and episodes no end.
 
Pighardia said:
Just finished the first episode. Really good set up I thought. Definitely has potential.
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Sadly IMO it really doesn't, despite the interesting premise it mostly runs around chasing its own tail.

The aesthetic isn't bad and I'd have been kinder if it hadn't tried so hard in the first episode to be something it isn't.
 
v0n said:
I suppose what doesn't help SexyGreyFox is that unlike other characters in the story - Kovac's narration in different time frames is done by three different actors that don't follow each other's character traits, accents, mannerisms or anything really, even one iota. Despite the actor portraying him during Envoy training is clearly the best out of three, I somehow find those flashback the most yawny, boring and exhausting to watch. It's almost feels as if I switched channels to a different series, this time set in Canada on a 10 dollar budget and it goes on and one for episodes and episodes no end.
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I've found an episode synopsis now but I've only come across 2 Kovac's up to yet, unless I've missed one :)
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I've found an episode synopsis now but I've only come across 2 Kovac's up to yet, unless I've missed one :)
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Two iterations are played by vaguely similar looking Asian actors. There is technically 4 versions of Kovacs but that is sadly underused (or 5 if you include the fight clone sleeve).
 
Am several episodes in over the last 2 days.
I liked the idea and the scene painted so far. Not had any issue with following the plot with the flashbacks etc.
Casting? Not really paid any heed to it with the exception of the guy who crops up from 'dirk gently's holistic detective agency'.
Nice to see some 'adult' sci fi for a change. Looking forward to the rest of it.
Had a look on amazon - piqued my interest for reading the books. Can't be any more abstract than david zindell's requiem for homosapiens.
 
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