AMD confirms Ryzen 7 5800X3D launches this spring, Zen4 Raphael in 2H 2022

[Twinz]

By the time they got the part validated and to market it Zen4 would knocking at the door and Raptor Lake, so kinda pointless.

You really think it's that difficult? They already announced the 12900KS.

Also, Intel is currently the fastest gaming CPU, so the clock is ticking on AMD to get the title back. (Which seems to be something they are at least giving lip service to, and as such, seems to matter to AMD)

 

[Joxeon]

You really think it's that difficult? They already announced the 12900KS.

Also, Intel is currently the fastest gaming CPU, so the clock is ticking on AMD to get the title back. (Which seems to be something they are at least giving lip service to, and as such, seems to matter to AMD)

Whether or not you buy a 12900KS or 5800X3D neither will be cheap, and even if the KS is slightly faster there will still be plenty of people on AM in which the X3D is still going to be the fastest option for them without having to switch platforms and AMD will know this when setting the price.

 

[Journey]

You really think it's that difficult? They already announced the 12900KS.

It's not about difficulty it is about processes and procedure, and licensing, marketing and all of the other things that go along with a major international company releasing a product. The don't just go, ok lets do that, and then the following day knock up some box art and pop it on a plane ready to sell.

Also, Intel is currently the fastest gaming CPU, so the clock is ticking on AMD to get the title back. (Which seems to be something they are at least giving lip service to, and as such, seems to matter to AMD)

Indeed they are, will be interesting to see what people think of it when it is available, although I doubt it will ruffle that many feathers in all honesty, the main thing in my eyes is extending the platform life that little bit further. I am far more interested at the two opposite ends of the spectrum really, low power parts and HEDT as those are the two main things I work with.

 

[Twinz]

Whether or not you buy a 12900KS or 5800X3D neither will be cheap, and even if the KS is slightly faster there will still be plenty of people on AM in which the X3D is still going to be the fastest option for them without having to switch platforms.

That's why a (basically) 12900KS with no e-cores could be an easy way for Intel to beat the 5800X3D and still undercut AMD.

The 12900KS that has already been announced only makes sense if AMD try to overcharge for the 5800X3D.

 

[Joxeon]

Either way bumping the price up on a 5800X3D will be great way to normalise a higher price point on Zen 4 as AMD will say look the 6800X is 25% faster than the X3D and comes with lots of other goodies for the same price so you're getting a bargain.

 

[q974739]

This was compared to the 12900k in performance and you think AMD is going to price this up against the 12700?

Yes. It really depends on what they want to do. And I think that they want to do is solidify in the market and public mind that "For gaming, go AMD. Don't even think about Intel, overheating garbage."

Consider prices, rounded, on OCUK.
AMD: 320, 400, 530, 750.
Intel, selected models: 280, 375, 530. (12700K-12900K, OEM) But Intel motherboards generally more expensive, and need more cooling, so treat all those intel numebrs as +£50.
330, 425, 580.

AMD don't want *any* gamer to buy a 5900x or higher. Why? Because it costs them a sale. What am I talking about? If a gamer buys a 5900, that's a marginal ~£130 extra that they get, for a second chiplet. Pretending that they get all the money - they don't, but work with me here. The alternative is they buy the 5800x3D...and AMD get to sell either an extra 5600x or 5800x, depending on if they were going to sell a 5900x or 5950x. That extra sale is worth more than a £50-£100 premium - because they already have the chip. It's pure profit all the way. In addition, every AMD sale is a denied Intel sale. This is mostly a zero sum game market.

So they price it agressively against the 12700K. Make the 12900K a pointless exercise for gaming. Make the 12700K look like an expensive, odd choice. Give the AM4 one last hurrah to make the diehards happy. After all, you to could get current top of the line gaming perforamce without rebuilding the whole darn system.

Then bring out Zen4 and blow everything else out the water. Another generation of Win.

 

[Joxeon]

Yes. It really depends on what they want to do. And I think that they want to do is solidify in the market and public mind that "For gaming, go AMD. Don't even think about Intel, overheating garbage."

Consider prices, rounded, on OCUK.
AMD: 320, 400, 530, 750.
Intel, selected models: 280, 375, 530. (12700K-12900K, OEM) But Intel motherboards generally more expensive, and need more cooling, so treat all those intel numebrs as +£50.
330, 425, 580.

AMD don't want *any* gamer to buy a 5900x or higher. Why? Because it costs them a sale. What am I talking about? If a gamer buys a 5900, that's a marginal ~£130 extra that they get, for a second chiplet. Pretending that they get all the money - they don't, but work with me here. The alternative is they buy the 5800x3D...and AMD get to sell either an extra 5600x or 5800x, depending on if they were going to sell a 5900x or 5950x. That extra sale is worth more than a £50-£100 premium - because they already have the chip. It's pure profit all the way. In addition, every AMD sale is a denied Intel sale. This is mostly a zero sum game market.

So they price it agressively against the 12700K. Make the 12900K a pointless exercise for gaming. Make the 12700K look like an expensive, odd choice. Give the AM4 one last hurrah to make the diehards happy. After all, you to could get current top of the line gaming perforamce without rebuilding the whole darn system.

Then bring out Zen4 and blow everything else out the water. Another generation of Win.

If they price it too low then they would be effectively undercutting their own vanilla zen 3 products which while they are still selling well won't happen.

 

[Twinz]

Either way bumping the price up on a 5800X3D will be great way to normalise a higher price point on Zen 4 as AMD will say look the 6800X is 25% faster than the X3D and comes with lots of other goodies for the same price so you're getting a bargain.

Companies always want to charge as much as they possibly can. The reason they don't charge more is competition. When they were winning on performance they charged more than the competition but, since the competition still offered viable CPU's, there was a limit to what they could charge.

If the 5800X3D is slower than a 12900KS, well AMD can "want" this or that, but if they try to pretend competition doesn't matter they will suffer at some point.

Despite all the "mindshare" bragging, AMD CPU's are getting regularly discounted now. I suppose it could be a coincidence that Intel just happens to offer CPU's that perform better at the same time AMD CPU's are seeing discounts...but I doubt it.

 

[jigger]

Companies always want to charge as much as they possibly can. The reason they don't charge more is competition. When they were winning on performance they charged more than the competition but, since the competition still offered viable CPU's, there was a limit to what they could charge.

If the 5800X3D is slower than a 12900KS, well AMD can "want" this or that, but if they try to pretend competition doesn't matter they will suffer at some point.

Despite all the "mindshare" bragging, AMD CPU's are getting regularly discounted now. I suppose it could be a coincidence that Intel just happens to offer CPU's that perform better at the same time AMD CPU's are seeing discounts...but I doubt it.

Two general schools of thought on this. Maintain high sales figures through lower prices or maintain higher margins at the cost of lower numbers of sales.

Never seen any mindshare* bragging. That seems to be an Nvidia thing. Never seen much bragging from AMD either come to think of it.

 

[q974739]

If they price it too low then they would be effectively undercutting their own vanilla zen 3 products which while they are still selling well won't happen.

That's the beauty of it. It doesn't matter if they undercut the entire product line, if they can make more sales with chips released from people no longer chasing the larger SKUs. If people were going to buy the 12700/12900 for the performance edge, they weren't a 5x900x target anyway. Undercutting a $null sale is, um, hard.

 

[Twinz]

If people were going to buy the 12700/12900 for the performance edge, they weren't a 5x900x target anyway. Undercutting a $null sale is, um, hard.

What makes you think that the 12900k and 5x900 are different markets? The 12900k trades blows with the 5950X in productivity tasks and beats it in gaming.

 

[Curlyriff]

What makes you think that the 12900k and 5x900 are different markets? The 12900k trades blows with the 5950X in productivity tasks and beats it in gaming.

Was also going to ask this. They seem very much comparable and even if you just look at gaming people still want the fastest at that regardless of its other performance metrics.

Where the 5800x3D really should be coming at around the £360 price point max I think it's going to be more like £550 and way overpriced tbh.

 

[Joxeon]

Was also going to ask this. They seem very much comparable and even if you just look at gaming people still want the fastest at that regardless of its other performance metrics.

Where the 5800x3D really should be coming at around the £360 price point max I think it's going to be more like £550 and way overpriced tbh.

There will be plenty of people who will buy it at that price as plenty have the 5950X for just gaming and AMD know this.

 

[Journey]

Was also going to ask this. They seem very much comparable and even if you just look at gaming people still want the fastest at that regardless of its other performance metrics.

Where the 5800x3D really should be coming at around the £360 price point max I think it's going to be more like £550 and way overpriced tbh.

Depends on how many they make, and if they want it to be 'exclusive' feeling.

I currently build way more 5600x and 5800x systems than 5900x and 5950x, and the price trend for CPU's has gone down as GPU prices have gone up for normal users/gamers. So much so, that a huge majority of builds are going with low end 10400/11400 based systems where they'd normally have the budget to fit in the 5900x and X570 boards etc. I've even seen people cut back on RGB to save some £££'s.

Now more than ever the budget CPU market is booming, and AMD are missing out on the majority of that, but for the most part those that are willing to spend £1k+ on an RTX 3080 don't seem to care if a 5800X costs £320 or £450 as long as their card will run well.

 

[Twinz]

There will be plenty of people who will buy it at that price as plenty have the 5950X for just gaming and AMD know this.

How many people want to take a productivity performance regression for a bump in gaming performance?

If it's someone that has money to burn (ie someone who buys a 5950x for gaming) then a 12900KS could better serve that customer.

AMD is banking on people sacrificing gaming or productivity with one of their products when Intel may be offering the only no-compromise CPU on the market. (Well, efficiency in productivity tasks will suffer, but it seems like a rather low priority for high-performance desktop customers)

AMD is saying "You can have this *or* that." Intel is saying, "We will give you *both* in the same CPU."

 

[Joxeon]

How many people want to take a productivity performance regression for a bump in gaming performance?

If it's someone that has money to burn (ie someone who buys a 5950x for gaming) then a 12900KS could better serve that customer.

AMD is banking on people sacrificing gaming or productivity with one of their products when Intel may be offering the only no-compromise CPU on the market. (Well, efficiency in productivity tasks will suffer, but it seems like a rather low priority for high-performance desktop customers)

AMD is saying "You can have this *or* that." Intel is saying, "We will give you *both* in the same CPU."

AMD could probably make the 5950X3D but it would likely cost 1000 bucks and even AMD know that's pushing it so it's better to sell 2 8 core chips for 500 each etc.

 

[Twinz]

Depends on how many they make, and if they want it to be 'exclusive' feeling.

Like a limited edition 2700X signed by Dr. Su herself? I don't know how well that "worked". "Exclusive" doesn't take you far if the performance laggs the competition.

 

[Journey]

Like a limited edition 2700X signed by Dr. Su herself? I don't know how well that "worked". "Exclusive" doesn't take you far if the performance laggs the competition.

That was just for the 50th Anniversary though, and AMD were certainly not fighting for the performance crown back then, just the value one.

 

[Twinz]

That was just for the 50th Anniversary though, and AMD were certainly not fighting for the performance crown back then, just the value one.

But it was...."exclusive".

 

[Journey]

But it was...."exclusive".

You are just being daft now, for the sake of it.