AMD confirms Ryzen 7 5800X3D launches this spring, Zen4 Raphael in 2H 2022

[humbug]

Do you see what i'm getting at? its a chicken and egg thing, i've already said this, if the hardware stagnates games will too, we just keep getting the same mediocrity over and over again, you can't just keep upping the IPC by making bigger and bigger cores, ADL is an example, the core is 3X the size and 3X the power consumption of a Zen 3 core, and yet has 20% higher IPC, at best.

It has to be a combination of higher IPC, preferably a better design than ADL and yes MOAR CORES.

Its the same with VRam, the more of that we get the higher the image quality and detail in games.

 

[PhoenixTank]

Its not for certain they won't release other 3D AM4 skus. The 3600xt, 3800xt and 3900xt came out 4 months before Zen 3 launched without much prior fanfare. A 5900x3D might still happen.

AT are saying the 5800X3D is a bit of a market test, so hope you're right. I'd have my eyes set on a 5950X3D if that were available.

 

[Donnie Fisher]

On the face of it, if you can make an 8 core 3d cache chiplet for the 5800x layout , what would be limitation of making a 16 core twin chiplet in an 5950x layout.

 

[Vulture]

On the face of it, if you can make an 8 core 3d cache chiplet for the 5800x layout , what would be limitation of making a 16 core twin chiplet in an 5950x layout.

No limitation except capacity, 5900x and 5950x require 2 of those 3d cache, and 99% of capacity is reserved for EPYC, and whatever is left they use for desktop so better to use 1 than 2 for single model, most gamers buy 8 core cpu anyway so it is most profitable.

 

[Trickle]

On the face of it, if you can make an 8 core 3d cache chiplet for the 5800x layout , what would be limitation of making a 16 core twin chiplet in an 5950x layout.

Maybe they really have a reason why they have to stick to this 105TDP limit for AM4, though I'm struggling to be honest.
Perhaps they think they can easily sell 2x 5800x3Ds for £400 but will struggle to sell 5950x3Ds at £750+?
Maybe they want all the good 7nm silicon to go on Epyc Milan and we get the <200mhz down poorer binned dies that wouldn't be good enough for 5850s.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

They have to stick to 105w limit on am4 due to cpus overheating unless run on large 240 or 360 aio. Even high end air struggles past 105w going through a single zen3 ccx. 7nm and small ccx die size packs in the heat density.

 

[Joxeon]

On the face of it, if you can make an 8 core 3d cache chiplet for the 5800x layout , what would be limitation of making a 16 core twin chiplet in an 5950x layout.

Probably the further reduction in clock speed which would offset any of the performance gains in gaming while the extra cache would only have a limited amout of use in production workloads.

Maybe they really have a reason why they have to stick to this 105TDP limit for AM4, though I'm struggling to be honest.
Perhaps they think they can easily sell 2x 5800x3Ds for £400 but will struggle to sell 5950x3Ds at £750+?
Maybe they want all the good 7nm silicon to go on Epyc Milan and we get the <200mhz down poorer binned dies that wouldn't be good enough for 5850s.

For all we know the 5800X3D could be a £500+ part given the extra complexity in its design and given that it's set to be the halo gaming product.

 

[Vulture]

3d cache can be disabled for extra clock speed if you use workload that benefits more of clock speed than cache.

 

[Twinz]

3d cache can be disabled for extra clock speed if you use workload that benefits more of clock speed than cache.

Source?

 

[Donnie Fisher]

Just watched PC World interview on youtube with the 2 AMD chaps ( Robert Hallcock and Frank Azor ). They were basically asked outright about a 5950X version with 3D cache.

The essence of the answer being that its a bit of a toe in the water product which has been facilitated with their success of late allowing them to branch out into some 'nice to have' products. Didn't rule out other 3d cache products completely, but considered the 5800x base being a sweetspot for gamers to match the consoles.

On the topic of top line clock speed, they basically shrugged their shoulders and said the benefits of 3D cache are worth the sacrifice of a few hundred MHz and gave an impression of not feeling they need to chase the top speed when they can match overall performance at lower frequencies.

 

[Vulture]

Source?

I remember it from the first presentation with 5900x, Lisa Su said it can be disabled to save power.

 

[Twinz]

Just watched PC World interview on youtube with the 2 AMD chaps ( Robert Hallcock and Frank Azor ). They were basically asked outright about a 5950X version with 3D cache.

The essence of the answer being that its a bit of a toe in the water product which has been facilitated with their success of late allowing them to branch out into some 'nice to have' products. Didn't rule out other 3d cache products completely, but considered the 5800x base being a sweetspot for gamers to match the consoles.

On the topic of top line clock speed, they basically shrugged their shoulders and said the benefits of 3D cache are worth the sacrifice of a few hundred MHz and gave an impression of not feeling they need to chase the top speed when they can match overall performance at lower frequencies.

I watched that interview and was happy to hear Robert say that Intel's recent competition would factor into their pricing. (<Paraphrasing)

Re: clock speed regression, One of them mentioned thermal density, and the other talked about needing to fit within the 105w TDP.

I liked the generally candid tone. They seem to understand that they have real competition now.

 

[Mesai]

I watched that interview and was happy to hear Robert say that Intel's recent competition would factor into their pricing. (<Paraphrasing)

Re: clock speed regression, One of them mentioned thermal density, and the other talked about needing to fit within the 105w TDP.

I liked the generally candid tone. They seem to understand that they have real competition now.

The main positive for AMD is that they have a strong base to work from, whereas Intel are getting creative and bringing good things to the table but still need to fix their foundation.

 

[Journey]

Intel have 3-6 months this year to enjoy seeing some sales in the enthusiast segment, after that it comes down to Meteor Lake being good enough at the end of 2023 if Intel 4 is mature enough. Until then it will be AMD as the obvious choice at the high-end, and possibly even in the value segment with the next gen G series parts once they land.

 

[Joxeon]

Intel have 3-6 months this year to enjoy seeing some sales in the enthusiast segment, after that it comes down to Meteor Lake being good enough at the end of 2023 if Intel 4 is mature enough. Until then it will be AMD as the obvious choice at the high-end, and possibly even in the value segment with the next gen G series parts once they land.

You don't think raptorlake will be able to compete with Zen 4 given that it should be a much cheaper platform with cut price 600 series boards and cheap DDR4 memory and cpus?

 

[Journey]

You'll have people (enthusiasts) with the option to buy into a dead end platform with Rocket Lake, or a brand new socket with potentially 3-4 generations or more of drop in upgrades. DDR5 prices will be no more than 50% above that of the equivalent DDR4 capacities by the year end, rather than the 200%+ you need to pay now. As for the boards, who knows how much they cost when they are out at the same time, X770 might be less then Z690/Z790.

 

[Joxeon]

You'll have people (enthusiasts) with the option to buy into a dead end platform with Rocket Lake, or a brand new socket with potentially 3-4 generations or more of drop in upgrades. DDR5 prices will be no more than 50% above that of the equivalent DDR4 capacities by the year end, rather than the 200%+ you need to pay now. As for the boards, who knows how much they cost when they are out at the same time, X770 might be less then Z690/Z790.

i very much doubt AMD is going to give you more than 2 CPU upgrades now they are the "premium brand" they only did so with AM4 as they were coming from a long way back so had to give a carrot on a stick to those who took a chance on Zen but since their new found success they have been trying there hardest to backtrack by first trying to ditch 300 series with Zen 2 and then 400 series with Zen 3 so I doubt they are going to go the same way this time.

From what I'm hearing it will be atleast 2 years before DDR5 prices drop significantly and especially so for the higher binned stuff that the gamers will want.

X670 will be atleast as expensive as Z690 givien it will have similar features and the better tracing needed for DDR5 plus with the pins moving to the board.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Is it a fact that all zen 4 chips will have integrated graphics?

 

[Grim5]

i very much doubt AMD is going to give you more than 2 CPU upgrades now they are the "premium brand" they only did so with AM4 as they were coming from a long way back so had to give a carrot on a stick to those who took a chance on Zen but since their new found success they have been trying there hardest to backtrack by first trying to ditch 300 series with Zen 2 and then 400 series with Zen 3 so I doubt they are going to go the same way this time.

From what I'm hearing it will be atleast 2 years before DDR5 prices drop significantly and especially so for the higher binned stuff that the gamers will want.

X670 will be atleast as expensive as Z690 givien it will have similar features and the better tracing needed for DDR5 plus with the pins moving to the board.

I'm leaning there too - today in an interview they asked Lisa this and her answer was revealing. With AM4, AMD said you'll get 5 years of support. So today Lisa Su was asked, those who buy into AM5, how many years of support will they get and how long would the platform be supported. Lisa brushed it off and refused to put a number on it - she wouldn't give any timeframe or guarantee that someone buying into AM5 x670 would get support and be able to new CPUs into it post Zen4.


I'm not surprised by this, I'm sure AMD regrets saying they'd give 5 years of support to AM4 owners because it created a lot of headaches for them with bios and backwards support. Lisa's answer doesn't mean that you won't be able to use a Zen5 cpu on x670, she just doesn't want to commit to it because it can bite you

 

[Journey]

i very much doubt AMD is going to give you more than 2 CPU upgrades now they are the "premium brand" they only did so with AM4 as they were coming from a long way back so had to give a carrot on a stick to those who took a chance on Zen but since their new found success they have been trying there hardest to backtrack by first trying to ditch 300 series with Zen 2 and then 400 series with Zen 3 so I doubt they are going to go the same way this time.

From what I'm hearing it will be atleast 2 years before DDR5 prices drop significantly and especially so for the higher binned stuff that the gamers will want.

X670 will be atleast as expensive as Z690 givien it will have similar features and the better tracing needed for DDR5 plus with the pins moving to the board.

I guess you are entitled to your opinion, I totally disagree, but I know you feel the need to complain about AMD at every possible opportunity now that they are once again competitive. Socket longevity will be down to what is planned for the future, and the scope of the socket in terms of scalability and capability to be competitive with other possible industry advancements from elsewhere. I'm sticking with 3-4 generations of CPU's for the socket based on what little knowledge is available about it.

From what you are hearing about DDR5? What is it that you are hearing? DDR5 IC's aren't in short supply, it is the other components that make up the DIMM's that are problematic, and speeds only need to be ~6200MT/s C38 to be competitive against DDR4 which is already hit.

It costs $8 for an LGA1151 socket, heck if I want to get a socket replaced including labour and reflow it only costs me US$35 from the manufacturer, but I guess you know more as you once built a system.