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AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design

Joxeon said:
That was the full quote from Robert Hallock so straight from the horses mouth.

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Coming in half way through the conversation but what exactly was the problem with this? IF AMD had left manufatureers support PCIE4 on older boards and those boards then crapped out on end users because the board could not cope with the signal strength then AMD would have been slaughtered
 
cliffy said:
Coming in half way through the conversation but what exactly was the problem with this? IF AMD had left manufacturers support PCIE4 on older boards and those boards then crapped out on end users because the board could not cope with the signal strength then AMD would have been slaughtered
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Exactly. AMD were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. They went the lesser of two evils and just had to lock things out, despite their intention from the outset.

Now that Ryzen is an established market leader, you'd hope vendors would have more confidence in producing AM5 boards to AMD's spec for multi-generational support, but again that's at odds with actually making money.
 
cliffy said:
Coming in half way through the conversation but what exactly was the problem with this? IF AMD had left manufatureers support PCIE4 on older boards and those boards then crapped out on end users because the board could not cope with the signal strength then AMD would have been slaughtered
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I'd have still preferred if AMD had made them run gen 3 by default but with an option to go gen 4.0 and a warning similar to how PBO is handled for more advanced users who like to tinker with their stuff as the gen 4.0 is on the CPU and it's a feature that I've paid for but been artificially locked out of.
 
Joxeon said:
I'd have still preferred if AMD had made them run gen 3 by default but with an option to go gen 4.0 and a warning similar to how PBO is handled for more advanced users who like to tinker with their stuff as the gen 4.0 is on the CPU and it's a feature that I've paid for but been artificially locked out of.
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But a lot of vendors did eventually release BIOS updates that enabled PCIe 4 where it was possible. Asus, for instance, updated 19 400 series boards with varying support for Gen 4 in the first slot and the M.2 connected directly to the CPU.
 
LePhuronn said:
But a lot of vendors did eventually release BIOS updates that enabled PCIe 4 where it was possible. Asus, for instance, updated 19 400 series boards with varying support for Gen 4 in the first slot and the M.2 connected directly to the CPU.
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The trouble was you were locked into an early bios as AMD blocked it from ABB onwards so if you updated you lost the support and that meant sacrificing future agesa improvements or the ability to upgrade to Zen 3 later while also maintaining gen 4.0 support.
 
Joxeon said:
The trouble was you were locked into an early bios as AMD blocked it from ABB onwards so if you updated you lost the support and that meant sacrificing future agesa improvements or the ability to upgrade to Zen 3 later while also maintaining gen 4.0 support.
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Pretty sure that's not the case, at least with what I read to refresh my memory. The PCIe 4 support for those 19 Asus boards, for instance, was erratic, almost nonsensically so, but they weren't locked out of future improvements.
 
LePhuronn said:
Pretty sure that's not the case, at least with what I read to refresh my memory. The PCIe 4 support for those 19 Asus boards, for instance, was erratic, almost nonsensically so, but they weren't locked out of future improvements.
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You were locked out of any future agesa improvements past the 1.0.0.3 ABB/ABBA if you wanted to continue with Gen 4 support.

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but there is also logic for AMD to expend as little effort on AM4 as possible. Don't know if they can reuse most of Zen3 design and literally glue some cache on top.

And then 6nm and further advances come for AM5 Zen4, DDR5, new APUs
 
LePhuronn said:
Exactly. AMD were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. They went the lesser of two evils and just had to lock things out, despite their intention from the outset.

Now that Ryzen is an established market leader, you'd hope vendors would have more confidence in producing AM5 boards to AMD's spec for multi-generational support, but again that's at odds with actually making money.
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The board partners have been upping their game with AM4 boards since its release. Looking at X370 to X470 to X570 there is a noticeable improvement in quality (and cost). Hopefully AM5 will take it to another level again
 
cliffy said:
The board partners have been upping their game with AM4 boards since its release. Looking at X370 to X470 to X570 there is a noticeable improvement in quality (and cost). Hopefully AM5 will take it to another level again
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Indeed. Even with Alder Lake retaking a lot of performance numbers for now, Zen is no slouch and Zen 4 is pegged to be a significant jump again, leapfrogging Raptor Lake in possibly a big way this time next year. There are no question marks any more about AMD's capabilities, so therefore there's significantly less risk to mobo vendors' ROI building long-lasting, tank motherboards on AM5.
 
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