AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

EastCoastHandle · 10 Jul 2020 at 22:15

FoxEye said:
Trouble with that is they're effectively developing two games.

Truth be told that is exactly what happens when gaming developers transition from an old console to the new one. Not to be confused with developing between console and PC.

Now the ones who don't plan on doing this will release in 2021 for example EA.
:cool:

Robert · 11 Jul 2020 at 04:45

Don’t forget most games have flexible engines. There’s no chance they could ditch PS4/x1 - there would be outrage.

FoxEye said:
Trouble with that is they're effectively developing two games.

And therefore a lot of devs aren't going to really put the required effort in (because cost). So you're more likely to end up with the lowest common denominator.

EastCoastHandle · 11 Jul 2020 at 17:08

Robert said:
Don’t forget most games have flexible engines. There’s no chance they could ditch PS4/x1 - there would be outrage.

Very true. Most, if not all would have updated the engines by now to account for this.

Now will these new engined games be ported to work better for AMD gpus? IMO, from MS it appears to be.

BS Dave · 12 Jul 2020 at 07:52

The thing I’m most excited about in these cards are the mesh shaders and increased poly count. I hate pop in!!

does this mean you’ll need a beefy cpu for all the draw calls?

Also with the mesh shaders 3x perf is 4k 60 going to be much more easily achievable?

JediFragger · 12 Jul 2020 at 10:12

BS Dave said:
does this mean you’ll need a beefy cpu for all the draw calls?

Can't hurt, or at least a fast 6c/8c like an Intel at 5Ghz+.

BS Dave · 12 Jul 2020 at 10:19

JediFragger said:
Can't hurt, or at least a fast 6c/8c like an Intel at 5Ghz+.

not sure if serious...

Poneros · 12 Jul 2020 at 10:20

BS Dave said:
The thing I’m most excited about in these cards are the mesh shaders and increased poly count. I hate pop in!!

does this mean you’ll need a beefy cpu for all the draw calls?

Also with the mesh shaders 3x perf is 4k 60 going to be much more easily achievable?

Pop-in won't be eliminated, not quite. You'll now have "transformations" when LODs change (so the object won't pop-in and out of existence so obviously in front of you, but the object will transform as you move closer to it). A beefy CPU is needed even today in many cases, but draw calls aren't so much an issue anymore as we've almost completely transitioned to Vulkan/DX12 at least for AAA and there's various tricks in which they could reduce them. And no, 4K 60 won't be easily achievable, as we now will add a major performance leech in the form of Ray Tracing, and with the new consoles still being, well, new, it means more graphics will be pushed and all the tricks for maximising them haven't been figured out yet, so it's not going to be easier to achieve 4K 60 on the PC, not if you intend to play with above console settings, which this time will be quite high.

tl;dr time to empty your wallet

Calin Banc · 12 Jul 2020 at 12:33

EastCoastHandle said:
They are different. Of course they're going to include last-gen. What games are they going to introduce that won't be compatible to current gen? Next-gen is going to have more "stuffs"

IE at a guess:
Ps4= bare bone, NO RT, lots of pop in textures..LOD -5 beyond 500'
Ps5= RT, Streamed textures, higher quality textures, etc

Robert said:
Don’t forget most games have flexible engines. There’s no chance they could ditch PS4/x1 - there would be outrage.

Basic gameplay will be the same. You still need to cater the weakest platform.
Also, just having big worlds doesn't say much, it matters what you do in them, how the world feels, how it reacts to what you're doing.

Big open world games are plenty - although "big" can be relative. What you're able to do in them can be boring and mediocre at best.

EastCoastHandle · 12 Jul 2020 at 16:30

Calin Banc said:
Basic gameplay will be the same. You still need to cater the weakest platform.
Also, just having big worlds doesn't say much, it matters what you do in them, how the world feels, how it reacts to what you're doing.

Big open world games are plenty - although "big" can be relative. What you're able to do in them can be boring and mediocre at best.

This makes absolutely no sense. So tell us what assets you can confirm won't be in the game and tell us how small the game is???

If you cant provide that then stop trying to downplay the game.

doody · 12 Jul 2020 at 20:18

some interesting info on youtube /not an apple fan/ :rolleyes:

if you don't mind the language

JediFragger · 12 Jul 2020 at 20:20

doody said:
some interesting info on youtube /not an apple fan/ if you don't mind the language

****e.

EastCoastHandle · 12 Jul 2020 at 21:23

LoadsaMoney said:
1440/30fps no RT incoming!

Actually, for the 2080ti it's 1080p/30fps w/RT incoming

But I'm real sure DLSS will get it up to 60 at 1080p, right? :eek:

It's said to already be playing on next gen console.

The point of all this is we all will need to upgrade to play these open world games using RT.
Unfortunately, the 2080ti ain't that upgrade.

shankly1985 · 12 Jul 2020 at 21:40

I can see the consoles will have presets linked to RT and frame rate. enable RT get say 1080p 30fps, disable RT get 1440p or 4k 60fps

Grim5 · 12 Jul 2020 at 21:50

EastCoastHandle said:
Actually, for the 2080ti it's 1080p/30fps w/RT incoming

But I'm real sure DLSS will get it up to 60 at 1080p, right?
It's said to already be playing on next gen console.

The point of all this is we all will need to upgrade to play these open world games using RT.
Unfortunately, the 2080ti ain't that upgrade.

This sub goes both ways - complains about games running at 1080p, also complains about anyone who cares about 4k cause apparently 90% of PC gamers play games at 1080p.
By that logic, most PC gamers will play the game at 1080p anyway, so they don't care if the game can't run in 4k 60 with ray tracing cause they play at 1080p anyway.

Me personally I want 4k 120 in my games, I'll disable ray tracing if I have to. I feel sorry for next gen consoles having to play the game at 30fps.

Overall though - this game looks pretty bad just like the last one.

Calin Banc · 12 Jul 2020 at 21:51

EastCoastHandle said:
This makes absolutely no sense. So tell us what assets you can confirm won't be in the game and tell us how small the game is???

If you cant provide that then stop trying to downplay the game.

You are confusing graphic fidelity with potential gameplay mechanics, physics, AI, animation, etc.

EastCoastHandle · 12 Jul 2020 at 22:05

Grim5 said:
This sub goes both ways - complains about games running at 1080p, also complains about anyone who cares about 4k cause apparently 90% of PC gamers play games at 1080p.
By that logic, most PC gamers will play the game at 1080p anyway, so they don't care if the game can't run in 4k 60 with ray tracing cause they play at 1080p anyway.

Me personally I want 4k 120 in my games, I'll disable ray tracing if I have to. I feel sorry for next gen consoles having to play the game at 30fps.

Overall though - this game looks pretty bad just like the last one.

I narrowed down the topic to the use of RT in upcoming games and how current GPU(s), like the 2080ti can handle it. Not to be confused with the 30fps caps we've seen from that card in other games that use RT.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, these next gen game will use both open world and RT. Something we've not seen in "PC" games as of yet. Which has nothing to do with what resolution you prefer.

In the video, there was no capture of next gen consoles playing the game with RT yet. But I suspect when it does it would put the 2080ti to shame performance wise. It would be a gift if next gen consoles did 1080p/30fps with RT on. Which is just speculation

Calin Banc said:
You are confusing graphic fidelity with potential gameplay mechanics, physics, AI, animation, etc.

So, i take it you cannot provide any insight to what the developer is doing with FC6? Color me surprised. I guess we all would be confused as to your interpretation of graphic fidelity and potential game play mechanics if you cannot actually provide said information

.

Grim5 · 12 Jul 2020 at 22:09

EastCoastHandle said:
In the video, there was no capture of next gen consoles playing the game with RT yet. But I suspect when it does it would put the 2080ti to shame performance wise. It would be a gift if next gen consoles did 1080p/30fps with RT on. Which is just speculation

.

Sorry to burst your bubble but everyone knows that graphic fidelity and graphics performance sells games, that's why historically game demos and trailers have been shown off running on PC's (for consoles games). If the Consoles or their Console devkits are performing better than the 2080ti, then Ubisoft would have run the game on the consoles - they did not, they are still running game demo's off PC's using 2 year old graphics cards - which means that the PC runs and looks better than the consoles

Feel free to keep the hope and dream alive of the PC killer consoles, it will be oh so much sweeter when that cherry pops come November.

EastCoastHandle · 12 Jul 2020 at 23:39

Grim5 said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but everyone knows that graphic fidelity and graphics performance sells games, that's why historically game demos and trailers have been shown off running on PC's (for consoles games). If the Consoles or their Console devkits are performing better than the 2080ti, then Ubisoft would have run the game on the consoles - they did not, they are still running game demo's off PC's using 2 year old graphics cards - which means that the PC runs and looks better than the consoles

Feel free to keep the hope and dream alive of the PC killer consoles, it will be oh so much sweeter when that cherry pops come November.

"you'll see, just wait until november...because devikits, 2080ti's and fidelity" oh my...

Or, Ubi simply wasn't ready to release anything else yet do to the scandals and other internal issues going on over there (at a guess). Or, perhaps they aren't ready to show it yet :eek:

.

Let's put it this way. I'm going to enjoy playing all the games I'll be looking forward to around that time (or whenever they will release) instead of hoping that nvidia doesn't charge a grand for the 3080 and higher skus. Because as far as I know, AMD, Sony, MS still considers themselves a company for gaming.

Oh, good luck with your still images + magnifying glass by then. But as it stands now another 1080/30fps RT game really stings when it comes from a 2080ti.

FoxEye · 13 Jul 2020 at 02:28

Grim5 said:
Feel free to keep the hope and dream alive of the PC killer consoles, it will be oh so much sweeter when that cherry pops come November.

They don't need to be superior, they just need to be affordable and "good enough".

Meanwhile in PC land, enjoy your nVidia pricing

I'm sure there are countless ways to justify spending £600+ on a mid-range GPU

Or £1k+ on something that didn't quite make it as a Pro card

Grim5 · 13 Jul 2020 at 05:51

FoxEye said:
They don't need to be superior, they just need to be affordable and "good enough".

Given most games shown so far for next gen machines run at 30fps I'd suggest "good enough" probably isn't the case for most here. I know a lot of people will stick to 1080p gaming on PC rather than get 30fps on consoles