Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Jun 2018
- Posts
- 2,827
This is getting very interesting.
I do wonder if they are release 2 or 3 cards?
I do wonder if they are release 2 or 3 cards?
-
Competitor rules
Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.
AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year
- Thread starter Gregster
- Start date
- Status
Don't think it will go down this way this time to be honest.
Soldato
- Joined
- 21 Jul 2005
- Posts
- 20,701
- Location
- Officially least sunny location -Ronskistats
Let's hope not as the reason we have such stupid pricing is down to people still buying RX cards. We seen with the release of the 5600xt that instantly nvidia could knock off $50 no problem to their low end card.
After the ryzen cpu success its almost a fairy-tail if they can transfer the gpu division, the winners will be the consumer if they can produce a solid alternative matching price/performance yet delivering on power efficiency after all this time.
I'd like AMD to pull a rabbit out of a hat, but they haven't been able to deliver on the GPU front for years now. Hence why nV have been able to raise prices every year. There has been little/no competition. Heck, AMD was peddling 480-class performance in the £200-£250 bracket since... 2014? It's only very recently that that price bracket has been upgraded to V56 performance.
I guess I'm just not all that optimistic about AMD suddenly making a come-back and checking nV's profiteering.
If your definition of "come-back" is Big Navi to match or beat Big Ampere then your expectations are too high, Ryzen 1000 / 2000 and 3000 never matched or beat the Intel counter parts in gaming, but they still perform very well and are in other ways better, with that AMD have made more than a "come-back", Ryzen self build CPU's are out selling Intel 8 to 1, AMD have turned it around to such an extent in sales Intel are now in a worse position than AMD was with Bulldozer.
AMD don't necessarily have to be "the best", they just have to provide a good all round product at a reasonable price and their sales will pick up.
They also hadn't been able to deliver on the CPU front for years until Zen came around...
RDNA is their GPU Zen moment imo - good potential new architecture but ultimately still beaten for the most part by the incumbent. From what we have seen so far I believe RDNA2 will be their Zen2 moment where they really come back swinging... The perf per watt improvement they mentioned in their analyst day is nothing short of incredible and would allow them to soundly trash a 2080Ti at a 300ish Watt power level.
Where the analogy fails is that despite what some would have you believe, Nvidia hasn't been resting on their laurels like intel so are unlikely to get caught with their pants down to the same extent. Yes they've gouged the market and taken advantage of not having any serious competition (until navi started competing well in the mid range at least) but their architecture is incredibly efficient and they've stolen a march on grabbing mindshare with RTX, pushing vr features, video encoding at the hardware level etc, I have no doubt their second implementation of ray tracing acceleration in the 30-series cards will be substantially improved too.
I'm not expecting Navi 2X to resoundingly destroy nvidia's offerings, but I would actually now be very surprised if they don't trade blows here and there. There is no doubt it will also be spurring Nvidia to push harder than they otherwise might have been tempted to. I think the end of this year is going to be a great time for those of us looking for a new GPU, some big performance leaps coming from both sides and competition that will inevitably soften prices, especially in the context of next gen consoles drawing away the mid and low end sales potential.
RDNA is their GPU Zen moment imo - good potential new architecture but ultimately still beaten for the most part by the incumbent. From what we have seen so far I believe RDNA2 will be their Zen2 moment where they really come back swinging... The perf per watt improvement they mentioned in their analyst day is nothing short of incredible and would allow them to soundly trash a 2080Ti at a 300ish Watt power level.
Where the analogy fails is that despite what some would have you believe, Nvidia hasn't been resting on their laurels like intel so are unlikely to get caught with their pants down to the same extent. Yes they've gouged the market and taken advantage of not having any serious competition (until navi started competing well in the mid range at least) but their architecture is incredibly efficient and they've stolen a march on grabbing mindshare with RTX, pushing vr features, video encoding at the hardware level etc, I have no doubt their second implementation of ray tracing acceleration in the 30-series cards will be substantially improved too.
I'm not expecting Navi 2X to resoundingly destroy nvidia's offerings, but I would actually now be very surprised if they don't trade blows here and there. There is no doubt it will also be spurring Nvidia to push harder than they otherwise might have been tempted to. I think the end of this year is going to be a great time for those of us looking for a new GPU, some big performance leaps coming from both sides and competition that will inevitably soften prices, especially in the context of next gen consoles drawing away the mid and low end sales potential.
Agreed. I can see first RDNA2 being analogous to first gen Ryzen. Competitive, not the best but a good price to performance. Give it couple of refreshes and I think Nvidia will have a fight on their hands. Do not underestimate the help MS and Sony will have been whilst developing for the consoles. I think Lisa Su is happy to play the steady, long game.
Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Jun 2018
- Posts
- 2,827
What I found interesting in all this is that this is not navi23 whatever they want to call it. It appears that they have two architectures one is the one being released this year and they have another one being released next year. They call it RDNA 2 and RDNA 3 or navi 3x which we assume was Navi 23 as listed in the title of this thread.
That is the alleged nvidia killer.
That is the alleged nvidia killer.
No, my definition of a come back would be to have an architecture which is good enough, and cheap enough to manufacture, to engage in a price war with nVidia
Because as a consumer I don't like to see nV's runaway pricing.
AMD have had issues recently with performance (480, etc, allegedly underperformed compared to expectations, hence having to clock them way beyond their optimal frequency range), and keeping costs down. Recently we had HBM offerings from AMD which cost $$$$ to manufacture even as they struggled to match nV cards costing a lot less (BOM cost).
So that's my definition of a come back. Being in a position to compete in all metrics against nV, and being able to undercut the competition (if desired).
Soldato
- Joined
- 21 Jul 2005
- Posts
- 20,701
- Location
- Officially least sunny location -Ronskistats
I just thought people regularly posting here knew this.. o 0
My point was about nvidia's pricing @FoxEye you seem to be understating what Ryzen has done in so little time and seem to think nvidia can call the high prices because there is no challenger. I see it as a different light where if people genuinely dislike nvidia's gluttony of price then boycott them by simply not buying anything. I understand AMD since they took over ATi have been pretty much a flop each promising release, I will always wait until launched reviews now before getting carried away; but intel and nvidia need to buck up their ideas and stop milking the market. In the first time ever I think, there is a large user base of PC gamers getting fed up of the pricing and will step over to the consoles in the next couple of years and rightly so.
Im hoping AMD do come up with the goods so that it recovers some of the purpose of gaming on PC platform.
Associate
- Joined
- 24 Jun 2016
- Posts
- 852
- Location
- Hartlepool
I think some people have misunderstood AMD's use of Navi 2X/3X. It's just the name of the chip family under the RDNA 2 and RDNA 3 architectures.
RDNA (Navi 1X) has Navi10/12/14
RDNA 2 (Navi 2X) will have Navi 21/23 (maybe more)
RDNA 3 (Navi 3X) will be along the lines of Navi 31/32/34 (not real names unless they are in which case you heard it here first
)As far as I can tell, they didn't use it to infer performance, unlike some youtube channels suggesting it meant 2X the speed of RDNA (it might be, who knows)
AMD are trying to apply the same cadence to their GPUs as they have with Zen, bringing a new version each year. Let's see if they can pull it off.
Plus I hope they work on their execution since the last few launches have been dire PR nightmares. BIOSes and drivers that work at launch would be good too
Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Jun 2018
- Posts
- 2,827
I think some people have misunderstood AMD's use of Navi 2X/3X. It's just the name of the chip family under the RDNA 2 and RDNA 3 architectures.
RDNA (Navi 1X) has Navi10/12/14
RDNA 2 (Navi 2X) will have Navi 21/23 (maybe more)
RDNA 3 (Navi 3X) will be along the lines of Navi 31/32/34 (not real names unless they are in which case you heard it here first
As far as I can tell, they didn't use it to infer performance, unlike some youtube channels suggesting it meant 2X the speed of RDNA (it might be, who knows)
AMD are trying to apply the same cadence to their GPUs as they have with Zen, bringing a new version each year. Let's see if they can pull it off.
Plus I hope they work on their execution since the last few launches have been dire PR nightmares. BIOSes and drivers that work at launch would be good too
From their investor press release and from the rumors it does appear they have
5700 series are RDNA 1 cards
6000 series RDNA 2 (GCN as we know it is completely scuttled) and will be on 7nm "enhanced"
Prosumer cards will be on CDNA as GCN is no longer a thing.
As for 2x/3x I can't say if it's going to be double or triple the performance efficiency with RDNA. However, once GCN is no more in the 6000 series I have a belief that these cards are going to be very fast. And will place the 5700 series as a mainstream card. The performance gap from 5000 to 6000 is going to be more than we've seen from AMD in years IMO.
Look Here:
RDNA between 5000 series (pic'd above) and the 6000 series is going to be restructured. You won't see these fat boys like you do in the 5000 series. I've heard there will be +4 of them. Making it much more efficient. As to how is still unclear to me.
This is another example. As it is right now that's how it works in 5000 series. But in the 6000 series it's going to be more efficient. Instead of 2 SIMD's there are +4 (maybe more) for example. The gist was that it would cut down on the number of cycles per SIMD. That's the rumor as I understood it. But we will see.
That SKU is supposed to have had advanced engineering samples or prototypes floating around for several months already. That ain't happening on a likely Q3 2021 GPU. I.E. It's not RDNA3 / Navi 3X.
Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Jun 2018
- Posts
- 2,827
It's very hard to predict AMD R&D product cycles. However, it was rumored that RDNA 2 was ready last year. If that's anything to go on.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 8 Jul 2003
- Posts
- 30,063
- Location
- In a house
Near end of the year for this id have thought, if they are coming after the new consoles.
Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Nov 2011
- Posts
- 20,674
- Location
- The KOP
Very much doubt that tbh I think these will release before the consoles. I going with August.
Soldato
- Joined
- 26 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 10,755
- Location
- West End, Southampton
Cant see it. Consoles rocking the "RDNA2 isnt even available on PC hardware". Theyll bang this drum to make sales, I'm sure there would even be a handshake in there somewhere. You'll see it release after console I'm almost certain of that.
Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Nov 2011
- Posts
- 20,674
- Location
- The KOP
My anniversary card is spot on, i was VERY unsure about grabbing another blower card after my reference vega64 which as ive said a few times, was absolutely fine at 1080p but on the move to 1440p it just wasnt acceptable. anyway based on a few videos on youtube, i took the plunge and bought another blower, and honestly its absolutely fine after an easy tweak. 970-980mv @ 1900mhz. Sure i lose 3fps in games but it sits at around 75-78c with a slightly higher junction temp (roughly 80-85) after a long gaming session, but for £300 i aint going to complain.
Soldato
- Joined
- 26 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 10,755
- Location
- West End, Southampton
We shall see
Should hopefully give us a bump up from V64 whenever it arrives.
- Status