AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[hyperseven]

AMD really need to be putting these type of APU inside their Laptops so they can take it to Intel/Nvidia

I know these things don't scale linearly but 80cus should be a monster as long as there is no bottleneck somewhere else, I'd guess 50% faster than this Xbox - and as awesome as that sounds, it would still fall short of expect RTX3080ti performance by a little bit.

WHich goes to show, we're only amazed by the Xbox because of today's GPUs. By the end of this year desktop GPU's will blowing right past this Xbox easily.

It was a good idea for Microsoft to spec drop so soon so they could beat Navi 2 desktop and Turing desktop - they know those cards will beat the Xbox, they want to be first to build hype and pre orders. Microsoft says it doesn't think of playstation as it's competitor, it wants to compete with PC and cloud, so it makes sense for them to drop specs so quickly.

Why would it want to compete with PC

The actual quote from big Phil

“When you talk about Nintendo and Sony, we have a ton of respect for them, but we see Amazon and Google as the main competitors going forward"

 

[opethdisciple]

1 TB PCIE4 SSD @ 4.8 Gbps

That stands out to me the most here. This could mean that the IO requirements of future games could be a lot more than currently.

I mean will it require PCIe 4 speeds for example?

I do think a lot of people who recommended and who have bought PCIe 3 mobos might regret it. Like the B450s instead of x570.

Either you wait for the B550 or go x570. (assuming B550 is PCIe 4)

 

[Grim5]

That stands out to me the most here. This could mean that the IO requirements of future games could be a lot more than currently.

I mean will it require PCIe 4 speeds for example?

I do think a lot of people who recommended and who have bought PCIe 3 mobos might regret it. Like the B450s instead of x570.

Either you wait for the B550 or go x570. (assuming B550 is PCIe 4)

I expect and so does Microsoft it will take time for games to fully utilize the next gen platforms.

For example, they'll use the SSD to load the game faster but still pre load assets into the 16gb vram instead of asset streaming.
They'll turn off SMT and use only 8 cores on the CPU so they don't have to optimize for more threads.
The games won't make use of VRS or RT at first.

There are a lot of new tricks the next gen machines can do, but it will take time for developers to come to terms with the technology and take the plunge.

And also I misquoted the bandwidth for the SSD. 4.8Gbps is the "compressed" bandwidth, the uncompressed bandwidth is 2.4Gbps which PCIE3 drives on the market can already achieve.

 

[GAC]

That stands out to me the most here. This could mean that the IO requirements of future games could be a lot more than currently.

keep seeing people saying this, all what will happen is loading times will be longer on slower drives, exactly like they are now and have been for years. hence you can install games on anything from a decade old 5200rpm mechanical drive or the latest pci4 nvme beast, works exactly the same just takes longer on the older drive.

 

[Grim5]

That stands out to me the most here. This could mean that the IO requirements of future games could be a lot more than currently.

I mean will it require PCIe 4 speeds for example?

I do think a lot of people who recommended and who have bought PCIe 3 mobos might regret it. Like the B450s instead of x570.

Either you wait for the B550 or go x570. (assuming B550 is PCIe 4)

keep seeing people saying this, all what will happen is loading times will be longer on slower drives, exactly like they are now and have been for years. hence you can install games on anything from a decade old 5200rpm mechanical drive or the latest pci4 nvme beast, works exactly the same just takes longer on the older drive.

go try star citizen on your 5400rpm drive and report back

 

[GAC]

go try star citizen on your 5400rpm drive and report back

so the game refuses to work on them or just takes a day to load ? as if they have hard coded it to not use mechanical drives because it would take an age to load thats them making the decision probably due to it being a online game but if that game was off line there would be no reason to do it other than their own vanity about how long it takes to load and their next gen game should only be on high end rigs.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

so the game refuses to work on them or just takes a day to load ? as if they have hard coded it to not use mechanical drives because it would take an age to load thats them making the decision probably due to it being a online game but if that game was off line there would be no reason to do it other than their own vanity about how long it takes to load and their next gen game should only be on high end rigs.

DF did a video of them playing it from a HD and a SSD, ah yer it was many time slower to load, asserts could not stream in fast enough, hitching, got worse when they where skimming a planet in a craft

 

[z10m]

I think that on PC much higher amount of RAM + VRAM will compensate for slower drives.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

I think that on PC much higher amount of RAM + VRAM will compensate for slower drives.

Wouldn't help with loading as the assets would still have to be read into ram. Also the more ram you set aside to pre load assets to the longer the first load will take and if you can't stream in assets fast enough you still run out of ram loaded assets and you are back to stuttering and asset streaming again.

The algorithms to predict and load in what assets are needed is not a simple job as well.

With the new consoles having SSD's this will be a moot point next year.

 

[Spyhop]

XBSX is going to make a complete mockery of PC's value-for-money

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Most PC gamers don't have £150 motherboards and the biggest installed userbase of consoles is the previous generation. It will take years for games to need PCI-E 4.0 SSDs especially with so many PCs and consoles still stuck on SATA.

 

[GAC]

DF did a video of them playing it from a HD and a SSD, ah yer it was many time slower to load, asserts could not stream in fast enough, hitching, got worse when they where skimming a planet in a craft

yeah open world stuff will be a pig to play on but i doubt games will require pcie4 nvme drives as standard anytime soon.

XBSX is going to make a complete mockery of PC's value-for-money

depends what price the new xbox is, with what has been shown £700 is a good possibility unless ms is taking a HUGE hit. and yes i know "but but £450 was too much last time....." hence i say if its any less ms will be taking a huge hit on every sale.

 

[Grim5]

so the game refuses to work on them or just takes a day to load ?

It's practically unplayable, the game just constantly lags and stutters as it tried to stream in assets but they can't load fast enough in.

Instead of trying to store ridiculous amounts of data inside ram and vram, it streams data off the storage drive when required, which is basically all the time.

The new Xbox runs games the same way

 

[KillBoY_UK]

yeah open world stuff will be a pig to play on but i doubt games will require pcie4 nvme drives as standard anytime soon.

Yes but a PCIe 3 class drive will be very soon, it already is in gaming builds of today. As will all new console that come out the base line requirements for most PC games will jump overnight.

 

[GAC]

Yes but a PCIe 3 class drive will be very soon, it already is in gaming builds of today. As will all new console that come out the base line requirements for most PC games will jump overnight.

AAA games take YEARS to make, giving ms and sony the benefit of the doubt maybe devs have had dev kits for 12 months so generally a game takes 2 years to make so at the very least end of 2021 for possibly AAA games that may leverage the technology on storage.

also devs arnt going to suddenly be demanding pci storage for gaming, as the vast majority of pc owners dont have it, will it take advantage of said technology yes, but being a requirement no i very much doubt it, what will probably be the min requirement will be a SSD in the next 12 months for new games, looking at a couple of newer games, doom eternal and borderlands 3 both just state hdd size required, same for the last assassins creed game. and yes star citizen needs this that and the other, but thats more of a glorified tech demo than anything else and is still being developed.

 

[opethdisciple]

Most PC gamers don't have £150 motherboards and the biggest installed userbase of consoles is the previous generation. It will take years for games to need PCI-E 4.0 SSDs especially with so many PCs and consoles still stuck on SATA.

But the next gen consoles will (assuming my assumption is correct).

It's an all in one platform. The specs, limitations and performance of which will be known to game devs.

 

[Panos]

AMD really need to be putting these type of APU inside their Laptops so they can take it to Intel/Nvidia

I know these things don't scale linearly but 80cus should be a monster as long as there is no bottleneck somewhere else, I'd guess 50% faster than this Xbox - and as awesome as that sounds, it would still fall short of expect RTX3080ti performance by a little bit.

WHich goes to show, we're only amazed by the Xbox because of today's GPUs. By the end of this year desktop GPU's will blowing right past this Xbox easily.

It was a good idea for Microsoft to spec drop so soon so they could beat Navi 2 desktop and Turing desktop - they know those cards will beat the Xbox, they want to be first to build hype and pre orders. Microsoft says it doesn't think of playstation as it's competitor, it wants to compete with PC and cloud, so it makes sense for them to drop specs so quickly.

AMD is not a company that would put a 173W+ APU in laptops. Intel does that (announced 200W CPU to beat the 54W 4800HS) but kills completely the consept of laptops.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

AAA games take YEARS to make, giving ms and sony the benefit of the doubt maybe devs have had dev kits for 12 months so generally a game takes 2 years to make so at the very least end of 2021 for possibly AAA games that may leverage the technology on storage.

also devs arnt going to suddenly be demanding pci storage for gaming, as the vast majority of pc owners dont have it, will it take advantage of said technology yes, but being a requirement no i very much doubt it, what will probably be the min requirement will be a SSD in the next 12 months for new games, looking at a couple of newer games, doom eternal and borderlands 3 both just state hdd size required, same for the last assassins creed game. and yes star citizen needs this that and the other, but thats more of a glorified tech demo than anything else and is still being developed.

Yes I know games take years to make, I was in the industry for 10 years making tools and middleware seeing the now generation of console come in. Some games right away hit some of the limits of the current gen of consoles. So I could quite easily see some aspects of the new consoles like the SSD to be use right away to such a level that you couldn't make the same game to same level with slower storage.

I was surprised the new xbox has gone the pure SSD route. I through they would go with a Hybrid drive, especially as the new Xbox SSD seems to be from Seagate. I guess after a underpowered OG XB1 they are going balls to the wall with this one.

 

[GAC]

was expecting a ssd for sure this time as honestly the extra cost is nothing when you look at form factor and heat/power savings as well as the bump in performance, i was surprised it is a pcie gen 4 (or whatever it is as i dont think ms has actually confirmed pcie4) let alone a 1tb nvme as the cheapest on pc partpicker is £293. going to be some rather upset console buyers come end of year and not just due to lack of stock

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

But the next gen consoles will (assuming my assumption is correct).

It's an all in one platform. The specs, limitations and performance of which will be known to game devs.

For at least for the next year to two years after the new consoles are released,it will be the older consoles determining the base specifications as they will have a much bigger userbase. The same goes with PCs,most PCs at best will have a SATA SSD,but not NVME,so this is why most games seem to be fine on a SATA device still.

If you suddenly expect games to need a PCI-E 4.0 SSD,it will crater sales on console,and also on PC as the cost is still prohibitive and there is minimal support on desktop. I know no one who has an X570 motherboard with an AM4 system,and no one who has a PCI-E 4.0 SSD - almost all PC gamers I know will have a SATA SSD of some sort. Then you have the other problem,that Intel systems don't use PCI-E 4.0 either,ie,all those higher Core i7 9700K and Core i9 9900K/9900KS PCs,which are limited to SATA and PCI-E 3.0 NVME SSDs. I think the upcoming Intel consumer platform also does not have PCI-E 4.0 either.

Also,another thing people have missed is the raw throughput of the NVME SSDs used in the XBox is capped to 2400MB/S to prevent overheating and to have consistent performance. Yes,there is compression involved in this which increases effective bandwidth,but I would expect a reasonably solid PCI-E 3.0 NVME SSD to be fine for the immediate future.

I also play an example of a game which hammers storage,ie,modded Fallout 4 with 200+ mods. The games is unplayable on a normal HDD in this state,and needs an SSD. Looking at the SSD monitoring software I can see upto 800~900MB/S peaks sometimes.