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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

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"The Ryzen" moment didn't bring intel beating performance in anything other than very niche scenarios (multi thread, server), they just offered better value by a clear margin. Zen cores are now apparently Intel beating and AMD are charging for it :p
 
d_brennen said:
"The Ryzen" moment didn't bring intel beating performance in anything other than very niche scenarios (multi thread, server), they just offered better value by a clear margin. Zen cores are now apparently Intel beating and AMD are charging for it :p
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But they disrupted the CPU market did they not? without Zen we would still be using £900 Quad cores....

The only way they can have a Zen moment in the GPU market is to beat Nvidia at everything, price, performance and features... so if they fall short on features or performance you better believe they need to price more competitively to sway people across.
 
DDH said:
But please continue. At least this thread will be entertaining, if not informative, for the next 2 weeks
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Im not so sure. Its not educational in the slightest, all I detect is pompous factology interpreted from somewhere else. Even the rumour videos and the leak tweets have something worthwhile compared to that. :p
 
KentMan said:
Edited in yellow what i think the prices would be in that scenario, arguably DLSS is a bigger deal than Ray Tracing for many users, and if AMD does not have a DLSS solution, they have no right charging Nvidia prices, as people simply will not accept high prices just on Rasterization performance now. To sway people away from Nvidia they either have to beat them on price, performance and features... its not going to change must just having the fastest card unless its hugely faster for a lot less money, its been seen time and time again people simply will not swap to AMD hardware once they are locked into the the Nvidia ecosystem. We may not like it, but Nvidia did not get their marketshare by accident, year on year consistent performance, better features, more refined and finished products most of the time, or simply paying game devs and working with them to implement their blackbox features.

AMD need a Ryzen moment in the GPU landcscape for it to change on any serious scale, they need RDNA2 or whatever comes next to not only be better, but massively cheaper and offer similar features, as if they do not, its too easy for current Nvidia owners locked in to say "no thanks i'll miss xxxx" if you can cover all the bases and come in at an attractive price, people will change, it happened with Ryzen, they know this, we know this.
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Your wrong.
RT and AI dlss is absolutely worthless for buyers to decide upon.
Anyone with an understanding how the market works none buys based on a future maybe feature.
You always buy cards what you can use today without breaking the bank.
80% of all cards sold, that is 80% is below $250 and good luck giving them your advice and mess up their life with that advice.
You should go work for Jensen as he tells people they made enough cards when they and he lied about that.
 
RBImGuy said:
Your wrong.
RT and AI dlss is absolutely worthless for buyers to decide upon.
Anyone with an understanding how the market works none buys based on a future maybe feature.
You always buy cards what you can use today without breaking the bank.
80% of all cards sold, that is 80% is below $250 and good luck giving them your advice and mess up their life with that advice.
You should go work for Jensen as he tells people they made enough cards when they and he lied about that.
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It's worthless to you. That doesn't make it worthless to others. Regardless of what you think and the "objective" value of those features, people still have a subjective opinion.

I personally don't see the value in said features... yet. I think they still have a way to go in terms of functionality and availability in games, if things progress much at all. Others already feel there is value, that's up to them.
 
I think the RDNA 2 ray tracing hardware for PCs will be similar to the what Series X and PS5 get. Its AMDs first crack at RT hardware, and they still need to catchup to NV in general GPU perf (for some reason, pointing this out annoys some people). Maybe the RT hardware on new consoles is good enough for the forseeable future?

Very few would buy AMD GPUs, if all they could offer was higher RT perf. than NV.

Sidenote - If RT is popular enough, wouldnt it be possible to design seperate add in PCI Express cards, dedicated to RT? Id support this, as its a more modular approach, only spend on RT if you want to.
 
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Sargatanas2511 said:
The way the last few pages have spoken I honestly presumed it was a fact. It's weird, considering AMD have been working on it with Sony and Microsoft for years in the consoles I would expect it to be decent.
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It likely is, its not out in the wild yet being tested by real people. Like any tech it will mature into the console timeline (as of now no PS5 to be used). People cant judge it yet its impossible. Comparing it to nvidia's method wont be apple to apples.
 
Th0nt said:
It likely is, its not out in the wild yet being tested by real people. Like any tech it will mature into the console timeline (as of now no PS5 to be used). People cant judge it yet its impossible. Comparing it to nvidia's method wont be apple to apples.
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So where is this pseudo factual chat coming from? Genuinely curious what made it all start.
 
Sargatanas2511 said:
So where is this pseudo factual chat coming from? Genuinely curious what made it all start.
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AMD has talked about minimising the use of fixed function hardware in their ray tracing solution but ray tracing is one area that benefits hugely from dedicated hardware. Their solution instead has been to try and alleviate or work around the reasons why the general compute shader architecture, assisted by some limited fixed function features, isn't ideal for processing ray tracing and there are limits realistically to how far you can push that.

I'll try and get back with more detail later but the long and short of it is Pascal doing it the way AMD is approaching it but without the benefits of any modifications is around 6x slower for ray tracing than Turing - with a GPU that appears to have about double the shader performance of the 1080ti and realistically about 3x at best the ray tracing performance uplift over doing it on the shaders unmodified you are looking at Turing kind of levels of RT performance.
 
d_brennen said:
"The Ryzen" moment didn't bring intel beating performance in anything other than very niche scenarios (multi thread, server), they just offered better value by a clear margin. Zen cores are now apparently Intel beating and AMD are charging for it :p
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Gaming. Is a niche scenario, and Zen 2 sold 8X more than Intel in the DIY space.
 
Rroff said:
AMD has talked about minimising the use of fixed function hardware in their ray tracing solution but ray tracing is one area that benefits hugely from dedicated hardware. Their solution instead has been to try and alleviate or work around the reasons why the general compute shader architecture, assisted by some limited fixed function features, isn't ideal for processing ray tracing and there are limits realistically to how far you can push that.

I'll try and get back with more detail later but the long and short of it is Pascal doing it the way AMD is approaching it but without the benefits of any modifications is around 6x slower for ray tracing than Turing - with a GPU that appears to have about double the shader performance of the 1080ti and realistically about 3x at best the ray tracing performance uplift over doing it on the shaders unmodified you are looking at Turing kind of levels of RT performance.
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I get what you are saying here, but we have no way of knowing what has been added to the die of the Navi 2X cards and the die size is definitely big enough for it to be feasible that there is something to assist. AMD have always been good with overall compute and floating point too so raw throughput shouldn't be a problem. We will see I guess!

Overall RT is the future 100%, I just am not sure if the next year will see an explosion of games or if it's still lagging behind or not.
 
Sargatanas2511 said:
Why is everyone suddenly so sure it's going to be significantly worse for ray tracing? Did I miss something?
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  • Game detail that has been released so far shows 1/4 resolution RT(1080p@4k).
  • Shared hardware between RT and raster. Do more of one, get worse at the other.
  • So far, no DLSS equivalent. 1/4 resolution RT looks like 1/4 resolution RT.
  • This is AMD's Gen 1. Don't let expectations get out of hand.
This doesn't make AMD's cards bad though. Most games will be fast moving so you won't notice lower res RT effects. Raster performance may be a lot better at lower resolutions when compared to Nvidia's cards.
 
Sargatanas2511 said:
Overall RT is the future 100%, I just am not sure if the next year will see an explosion of games or if it's still lagging behind or not.
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Problem is we won't see developers commit to it until their mainstream audience has at least the RT performance of the 2080ti - until then it will be token features that can be turned off without impacting on the game running without RT.

Sargatanas2511 said:
we have no way of knowing what has been added to the die of the Navi 2X cards and the die size is definitely big enough for it to be feasible that there is something to assist.
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Indeed - all the talk coming from AMD including patents and those that are working with AMD i.e. console suggests it is mostly centric around a specific approach and I've read the whitepapers on ray tracing which touch on that kind of approach in general and the realistic range of performance it brings. So I will be surprised if it is significantly different to that.
 
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