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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

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Th0nt said:
Sorry to hear that mate :( maybe you can employ her as the mining rig maintenance person? :)
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Aye it's one of those things and to be honest she can do better than what she was doing anyway, she is a talented and hard working girl so she will fall on her feet, of that I am sure. If she doesn't over the next few months she might have to come and work for me for a bit but right now it is about keeping her chin up, keeping looking and just taking it a day at a time. I'm currently employing her on coffee and lunch duties so at least she has something to do :)

Luckily all the bills etc and general life are covered, so really it will be about cutting out some of the extravagances of which there are plenty.
 
Nablaoperator said:
No man..that's not what I am saying..
Let's say if Nvidia has a better method of employing DXR to generate some effects, that method becomes their IP and they can licence it the way they want.. it's just like anyother software like you can't use unreal engine's RT implementation in your game without licensing it from them, inspite of them using DXR
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NVIDIA do have their own version of employing DXR, it's called RTX, whether it's better or the best is yet to be seen.

Look I'm no expert, but my understanding is that a DXR compatible card has a hardware capable of running the DXR code to help accelerate it's function. A game engine utilising DX12 will make calls to the DX12 API which in turn is passed through to the hardware via the driver. I really don't think that there is anything NVIDIA can do here that will accelerate DX12 for their own hardware only, and even if they could it would probably break DX12 functionality. It would also give NVIDIA a huge overhead of maintaining the hybrid code support.

Game works on the other hand runs outside/alongside the DX11/12 API, and a game engine when using it will make calls to the gameworks API which is then passed to the hardware via drivers too.

NVIDIA could create their own RT api that runs inside gameworks, but they haven't as far as i know and i imagine it would be a great deal of work. Better to let MS/Kronos deal with it.

What they could also do though is persuade a developer to program the DXR code that more efficiently supports their hardware, but that's also a guess
 
Th0nt said:
Understand mate, tougher times for a while - which is why we need the odd treat to keep us distracted like the 6000 nvidia killer! :D
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Exactly life continues to push on :) We are still alive, have a roof over our heads and one of us is still in work. Life could be and is worse for many more people than it is for me.
 
DDH said:
NVIDIA do have their own version of employing DXR, it's called RTX, whether it's better or the best is yet to be seen.

Look I'm no expert, but my understanding is that a DXR compatible card has a hardware capable of running the DXR code to help accelerate it's function. A game engine utilising DX12 will make calls to the DX12 API which in turn is passed through to the hardware via the driver. I really don't think that there is anything NVIDIA can do here that will accelerate DX12 for their own hardware only, and even if they could it would probably break DX12 functionality. It would also give NVIDIA a huge overhead of maintaining the hybrid code support.

Game works on the other hand runs outside/alongside the DX11/12 API, and a game engine when using it will make calls to the gameworks API which is then passed to the hardware via drivers too.

NVIDIA could create their own RT api that runs inside gameworks, but they haven't as far as i know and i imagine it would be a great deal of work. Better to let MS/Kronos deal with it.

What they could also do though is persuade a developer to program the DXR code that more efficiently supports their hardware, but that's also a guess
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Basically this. At this point if a game uses DirectX's DXR then it's a standard baked into the API. If the game is using DXR then all it's doing is making API calls for that specific function. It's up the video card designers to make sure their card is up to spec, i.e it can faithfully execute the API code and return an accurate result. That's literally the whole point of an API like DirectX, it acts as a middleman between software and hardware that guarantees compatilibity if everyone is doing their job correctly, there should be no need for the CP2077 devs to do anything different for AMD as long as AMD support DXR correctly. You only need dev intervention if they're using vendor specific features, I have no idea if CP2077 are doing this.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Basically this. At this point if a game uses DirectX's DXR then it's a standard baked into the API. If the game is using DXR then all it's doing is making API calls for that specific function. It's up the video card designers to make sure their card is up to spec, i.e it can faithfully execute the API code and return an accurate result. That's literally the whole point of an API like DirectX, it acts as a middleman between software and hardware that guarantees compatilibity if everyone is doing their job correctly, there should be no need for the CP2077 devs to do anything different for AMD as long as AMD support DXR correctly. You only need dev intervention if they're using vendor specific features, I have no idea if CP2077 are doing this.
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See I don't want to be the devil's advocate here.. but if a game developer is using Nvidia owned DXR plugins the terms of licensing are in Nvidia's hands..the game executable can explicitly stop execution of effects/code authored using Nvidia's plugins on certain hardware if Nvidia so wishes.

But this shouldn't be a long term worry because AMD is propped up by popular consoles and exclusions would be of temporary nature at best
 
Rroff said:
Crytek's RT is a hybrid approach that uses a mix of techniques with limitations and isn't comparable to proper RT. It relies on separately rendering a hugely simplified version of the scene, uses Voxel based representation of a scene for performance boosting which has some limitations not found in RT implemented with DXR, etc. and some features only work with static geometry and so on. It is one leg in the past for RT though even 5 years ago it would have been a big breakthrough.

Some people will defend it but it is a dead end technology now RT without relying on such techniques is a thing.
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What you might call "proper RT", RTX performance is utter crap, i think until we get minimum 60Hz 1440P with mid level cards the "hybrid approach" is much better, at least its usable.
 
Nablaoperator said:
See I don't want to be the devil's advocate here.. but if a game developer is using Nvidia owned DXR plugins the terms of licensing are in Nvidia's hands..the game executable can explicitly stop execution of effects/code authored using Nvidia's plugins on certain hardware if Nvidia so wishes.

But this shouldn't be a long term worry because AMD is propped up by popular consoles and exclusions would be of temporary nature at best
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To my knowledge DXR is an extension of the DirectX API and to the extent it relates to Nvidia is that they had a hand in developing it. I don't know the specifics about ownership but I highly doubt that Microsoft would allow someone to create an official extension of DX12 and then mess about with licencing to play silly buggers. If Nvidia want to corner this somehow it's more likely they'd go for patents on their hardware architecture that speed up DXR operations rather than mess with the API itself. The issue of ownership is an interesting one, I have no idea how the licencing works here, but it is an extension of DirectX which is a Microsoft owned technology so would be subject to their own licencing of how you can use it. Given that MS also build the Xbox which uses DX12 and they want to use AMD APUs I don't see them wanting to shoot themselves in the foot giving Nvidia that kind of control. APIs have to remain open to be useful.

I think Nvidia had such a hand in this because for all history of DirectX until this point, Microsoft really pushed the standards of the API first with video card adoption of those standard happening later on. This is really the first time Nvidia have stepped up and wanted to do something in hardware that the API can't do and pushed to have the API catch up with their hardware.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
I don't know the specifics about ownership but I highly doubt that Microsoft would allow someone to create an official extension of DX12 and then
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I think you are reading too much into it..
Just because DXR exists all software/tools using it don't automatically become open source..

It's like saying since unreal engine 4 uses the open dx12 standard... I should be able to use the engine for free to develop my next game without any licensing obligations..

And, there's also this slight chance that AMD has requested CDPR to hold off till they have an equivalent set of tools for extracting perf on Navi even if Nvidia is going open source
 
LePhuronn said:
Well, the Intel gamers are. Gotta get that 500fps somehow.
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Most of these esports titles are so heavily cpu bound it doesnt matter. CSGO for example, I can run it at 720p or 4k max settings and get the exact same frame rate, same applies for Valorant, and probably a whole host of other "esports" titles. After like 200 fps counting numbers is rather pointless. BTW - you fitted that bed yet?
 
Nablaoperator said:
I think you are reading too much into it..
Just because DXR exists all software/tools using it don't automatically become open source..

It's like saying since unreal engine 4 uses the open dx12 standard... I should be able to use the engine for free to develop my next game without any licensing obligations..

And, there's also this slight chance that AMD has requested CDPR to hold off till they have an equivalent set of tools for extracting perf on Navi even if Nvidia is going open source
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I'm talking about the API itself, everyone building a windows application is allowed to use the DirectX API, the whole point of the API is to facilitate software speaking to hardware. DXR is an extenion of the DirectX API it's not like a piece of software that Nvidia own (to my knowledge), it's an extension of DirectX and will be subject to Microsofts licencing for anyone extending it, which means Nvidia can't just arbitrarily mess about, Microsoft aren't going to allow that.

Most of the value that Nvidia can add is having their own set of vendor specific features which sit on top of DXR which is their RTX feature set, and it's up to developers if they want to implement a vendor specific set of RTX functions or if they want to go a neutral route by doing ray tracing through DXR which is vendor agnostic, all vendors can use DXR.
 
Vince said:
Most of these esports titles are so heavily cpu bound it doesnt matter. CSGO for example, I can run it at 720p or 4k max settings and get the exact same frame rate, same applies for Valorant, and probably a whole host of other "esports" titles. After like 200 fps counting numbers is rather pointless. BTW - you fitted that bed yet?
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Some would argue on here otherwise. I guess the only time I empathise is if they are trying to run high refresh rate to match the hz of the monitor i.e. 144 you want over that all the time. Like you said though surely then there is no need to go beyond 160 so you can cap your frames here.

Personally after getting used to my 4k display, playing @ 1080p looks horrible now, but 1440 is pretty convincing enough that its the happy medium for now.
 
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