AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[Phixsator]

https://twitter.com/Radeon/status/1249513071984414720?s=19

I watched that and to me it sounded like Big Navi is going to cost Big Money..

 

[JediFragger]

I watched that and to me it sounded like Big Navi is going to cost Big Money..

Welcome to the New Age, where nVidia leads...

 

[Grim5]

I watched that and to me it sounded like Big Navi is going to cost Big Money..

Big chips cost Big money, who would have thought...

 

[Participant]

If people haven't seen it, there are some really good analytical videos on YouTube about Big Navi, especially AdoredTV's, but also Moore's law is dead and hardware unboxed.

Late 2020 could be very interesting times.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

Big chips cost Big money, who would have thought...

It doesn't necessarily follow certainly not to the extent we have seen in recent years.

Everyone accepts that big chips produce less per wafer and increase the % of failure rates. Companies need to turn a profit, recoup their R&D plus any other costs anything over and above that is pure shareholder profit including investing in the future (which of course is important to consumers). All this is accepted the point that keeps getting glossed over and dodged by anyone that has a relationship with Nvidia is the profit margin part and how that is effected down through to retail channels because guess what guys you would not like the answer and you've become accustomed to it.

Gross profit is an interesting term.

If AMD and TSMC have the process nailed down a larger Navi GPU will not cost anyone that much more to produce. Yes its will cost more and of course you have more RAM etc to add as well but it won't be massively more and 7nm should mean smaller comparative dies to 12nm.

Does AMD really want to disrupt the 4K market or have its cake, we'll have to wait and see but please stop buying into the Nvidia, Intel & Apple bs pricing on its products.

 

[Phixsator]

It doesn't necessarily follow certainly not to the extent we have seen in recent years.

Everyone accepts that big chips produce less per wafer and increase the % of failure rates. Companies need to turn a profit, recoup their R&D plus any other costs anything over and above that is pure shareholder profit including investing in the future (which of course is important to consumers). All this is accepted the point that keeps getting glossed over and dodged by anyone that has a relationship with Nvidia is the profit margin part and how that is effected down through to retail channels because guess what guys you would not like the answer and you've become accustomed to it.

Gross profit is an interesting term.

If AMD and TSMC have the process nailed down a larger Navi GPU will not cost anyone that much more to produce. Yes its will cost more and of course you have more RAM etc to add as well but it won't be massively more and 7nm should mean smaller comparative dies to 12nm.

Does AMD really want to disrupt the 4K market or have its cake, we'll have to wait and see but please stop buying into the Nvidia, Intel & Apple bs pricing on its products.

I think AMD is tired of being known as the "value" brand. They want to have the best high margin Halo products while also being able to serve the lower to mid of the market . I do believe it's true, however stupid it is, that a lot look at what company has the fastest halo product and then buys a much lower tier from that company. So while I don't think they will go complete nvidia on pricing it will be up there IMHO. We can hope that they will follow what they have done with their Ryzen lineup.

It's sad really that it's now just expected by many that a GPU has to be expensive due to manufacturing costs. nVidia has really done a good job with their marketing and of course having the fastest Halo product has allowed them to push this agenda even further.

 

[Nutella33]

So while I don't think they will go complete nvidia on pricing it will be up there IMHO. We can hope that they will follow what they have done with their Ryzen lineup.

Exactly. They are playing the same game and in the same ballpark. Doesn't mean they won't undercut at all but people expecting a release to be one or two price levels below the equivalent performance of Nvidia will be disappointed imho.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

I watched that and to me it sounded like Big Navi is going to cost Big Money..

Were you honestly expecting 2080ti performance on a budget?

AMD aren't a charity, they need to maximise profit.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

Exactly. They are playing the same game and in the same ballpark. Doesn't mean they won't undercut at all but people expecting a release to be one or two price levels below the equivalent performance of Nvidia will be disappointed imho.

yeah I think that is true in what we will see but lets at least say it like it is those high prices are deliberately manufactured for profit way more than changes to the manufacturing costs.

AMD could potentially disrupt the market if they wanted to, I guess it all depends on their ambitions and in what volume they can produce these new chips with TSMC. If they are after market share we are in luck but if they are chasing GP then yeah the best we can hope for is more performance for your hard earned $$$.

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

The radeon 7 wasn't cheap, so no reason to believe this big navi will be cheap either. I do hope that performance per £ is significantly better than the radeon 7, which seemed to benefit no one at its price point and seemed aimed towards milking the fan boys.
Either way, AMD have shown they will put pricing in direct line with nvidia, even the rx5xxx cards started at similar pricing to equivalent nvidia cards... then dropped sharply, likely due to being a weaker name brand and drivers being total garbage.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

I do believe it's true, however stupid it is, that a lot look at what company has the fastest halo product and then buys a much lower tier from that company.

Yes that's very true. Not just hardware either, take formula one for example, if Renault wins a season, more people will buy a Renault Megane etc.

The company with the fastest high end, gets more sales at the low end, even if the product is inferior.

 

[Phixsator]

Were you honestly expecting 2080ti performance on a budget?

AMD aren't a charity, they need to maximise profit.

whats with the aggressive attitude? Have I ever said that i expected 2080ti on a budget? but now that you mention it, at some point it should be no? in like 2 gpu generations time.

EDIT: Sorry, i'm tired and that was uncalled for.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Its true they are not going to giveaway new releases nowadays when the PCMR has quite happily parted with north of £500 for a high tier component let alone the flagship card. One can hope for a cut down version with most of the performance but for both camps its always going to be aiming toward £1000.

 

[Twinz]

Were you honestly expecting 2080ti performance on a budget?

AMD aren't a charity, they need to maximise profit.

The 2080Ti has been on the market for years. Unless the market continues to stagnate, stronger GPU's should come along and deliver more performance for less money.

The GTX 590 launched at $700, now you can buy an RX 470 for $80 that's 20% faster than that $700 card.

I don't expect the cost of 2080Ti performance to drop to $80 this generation, but I want my GPU money to go noticeably faster than it did with the last generation.

 

[FoxEye]

The 2080Ti has been on the market for years. Unless the market continues to stagnate, stronger GPU's should come along and deliver more performance for less money.

The GTX 590 launched at $700, now you can buy an RX 470 for $80 that's 20% faster than that $700 card.

I don't expect the cost of 2080Ti performance to drop to $80 this generation, but I want my GPU money to go noticeably faster than it did with the last generation.

It probably will (continue to stagnate).

At some point, not too far away, we're going to be stuck for a very long time (a decade or more, perhaps) on a single process node. It's becoming too costly and too complex to continue to shrink things.

Cards will just get more expensive from here on out, I fear. There is going to be a limit and we are probably approaching that limit, beyond which you cannot get more performance without paying more money (each gen).

Frankly I think the best years of year-on-year perf increases are behind us. It's going to plateau in the coming years.

 

[Grim5]

It probably will (continue to stagnate).

At some point, not too far away, we're going to be stuck for a very long time (a decade or more, perhaps) on a single process node. It's becoming too costly and too complex to continue to shrink things.

Cards will just get more expensive from here on out, I fear. There is going to be a limit and we are probably approaching that limit, beyond which you cannot get more performance without paying more money (each gen).

Frankly I think the best years of year-on-year perf increases are behind us. It's going to plateau in the coming years.

It might still go the other way. Even if we get stuck on 5nm (which is rumoured to be more expensive than 7nm) there is MCM which every GPU maker is working towards.
We've seen AMD say countless times that MCM architecture on ryzen is cheaper to manufacture than a monolithic design - so MCM GPU's could be significantly cheaper than a 800mm2 monolithic behemoth.

 

[rolypolyman]

The danger if £1000+ is to become the norm for decent graphics cards, for gaming at least, is the consoles. My son sent me a screenshot of Fallout 76 Wastelanders at 4k on his tv/Xbox One X and to be fair it looked like a high quality photo, amazing detail. The upcoming new consoles will no doubt do better and for a price considerably less than £1000. I fear for Pc Gaming in the near future as the costs are becoming unmanageable. Super widescreen monitors £1600 plus, better off with a 55" 4k TV for £500. I think Nvidia and Amd need to look hard and realise they are pricing themselves out of business. Many countries are going to be suffering financially for years to come due to coronavirus issues and many people will have to look elsewhere for their entertainment, certainly away from PC stuff. Just my thoughts and I'm no expert on any of this at all.

 

[Grim5]

The danger if £1000+ is to become the norm for decent graphics cards, for gaming at least, is the consoles. My son sent me a screenshot of Fallout 76 Wastelanders at 4k on his tv/Xbox One X and to be fair it looked like a high quality photo, amazing detail.

In my experience comparing screenshots between PC and consoles only tell half the story or even less sometimes. The major differences show their head in movement.

 

[Gerard]

In my experience comparing screenshots between PC and consoles only tell half the story or even less sometimes. The major differences show their head in movement.

Yup, aliasing and anisotropic filtering differences are usually very obvious in consoles when you see it first hand, it's not always as noticeable in vids.

 

[FoxEye]

The danger if £1000+ is to become the norm for decent graphics cards, for gaming at least, is the consoles. My son sent me a screenshot of Fallout 76 Wastelanders at 4k on his tv/Xbox One X and to be fair it looked like a high quality photo, amazing detail. The upcoming new consoles will no doubt do better and for a price considerably less than £1000. I fear for Pc Gaming in the near future as the costs are becoming unmanageable. Super widescreen monitors £1600 plus, better off with a 55" 4k TV for £500. I think Nvidia and Amd need to look hard and realise they are pricing themselves out of business. Many countries are going to be suffering financially for years to come due to coronavirus issues and many people will have to look elsewhere for their entertainment, certainly away from PC stuff. Just my thoughts and I'm no expert on any of this at all.

AMD want you to buy a console

They can always lower their PC prices at a later date, to tempt you to double dip

I do not think that PC prices will be comparable to/competitive with console prices to start with; instead I think they'll want to keep PC prices high. That is of course assuming this gen of consoles does not massively increase the asking price also, which is unlikely but not impossible.

But I think there are enough PC gamers who were willing to pay £1000 for 2080Ti perf that AMD are not going to offer this perf for anything less than £600, in a PC GPU. Even after the consoles launch.

I'd bet my hat against any PC GPU offering 2080 Ti perf at £400. I wouldn't be surprised if that perf still commanded £600-£700 prices in 2021.