AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[Mr Oblong]

Exactly - look at how when they knew they had a winner with Zen3,they priced the CPUs more than the equivalent Intel ones per core. They also quietly jacked the pricing up on their motherboards too,and nearly blocked 400 series motherboard users from being able to upgrade(until the community complained about it).

AMD and their shareholders want profit like anyone else. If they sense now is the time then they will extract every penny they can.

Bad news for me.

 

[pugheaven]

I frig hope not man!

I think the 6900XT could be 899 or higher, thats ok and open to arguments but I wont be in that price banding. I would be the 6800 type man.. so Im hoping the XT is £600 and the non XT just over £500.

I can answer your Navi10 question though, they are spinning a mining version to sell to the miners and this will move that stock on till they wind it up.

Ahh I wasn't aware of that, missed that news... interesting... so basically Navi10 won't be produced for gaming sectors, right ok. As for those prices, I'd love you to be right man... if you are, AMD have this nailed bigtime, I just have a fear they won't... in 3 days time, we'll all know lol. My fear is they literally look at the competition and just go, well we've got a 3080 type card in the 6800XT so we'll price around the same instead of saying, well we have a 3080 level card, lets undercut it and place it at £599, get some green people to switch and change the mindset of the gaming world that AMD are now a force... that would be the sensible thing... but I think it's hope rather than what'll happen hahaha

 

[gpuerrilla]

Exactly - look at how when they knew they had a winner with Zen3,they priced the CPUs more than the equivalent Intel ones per core. They also quietly jacked the pricing up on their motherboards too,and nearly blocked 400 series motherboard users from being able to upgrade(until the community complained about it).

I am hoping like everyone they dont do this. I am going by past form though and as with Ryzen 1 when they came near, it was a good price, so hoping that as Big Navi is the near to this generation, it should be the next iteration or refresh they will charge parity.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

AMD and their shareholders want profit like anyone else. If they sense now is the time then they will extract every penny they can.

Bad news for me.

Its the same short termism which is affecting a lot of companies. See what happened to Apple and Samsung,they allowed cheaper Chinese companies room,since they only cared about margins. In the end Chinese companies have a huge percentage of the phone market now(it would be even worse if Huawei wasn't in trouble). A few years ago they were nowhere. Considering what is happening worldwide(sure credit is cheap,but if people have no jobs,how are they going to pay it back in the near future?),I am not sure how long tech stocks can maintain the momentum. Give it a few years and I can see another tech bubble crash,as margin improvements start to stall.

I am hoping like everyone they dont do this. I am going by past form though and as with Ryzen 1 when they came near, it was a good price, so hoping that as Big Navi is the near to this generation, it should be the next iteration or refresh they will charge parity.

I think they will try to price them high,if they can match/beat the RTX3080 and RTX3090,and have better power consumption. In fact the only thing which might force them to price it better,is the worse RT performance and lack of a DLSS alternative.

But we saw once AMD won over Intel,their 6C and 8C CPUs now cost more than Intel.So AMD pricing lower,and giving all the niceties was more a function of them being worse in some aspects than the competition. The same with Intel and Nvidia,once they are behind they act more reasonable too. Its not shocking - we saw how they acted during the Athlon 64 era. They went from price/performance and long platforms,to expensive CPUs,multiple platforms,two of which had short lifespans(socket 754 and QuadFX),etc.

Ultimately in the end all these companies will act the same if they get away with it,and it is entirely on consumers to push back. If consumers don't companies will take you to the cleaners. Loyalty is now seen as a mugs game by these companies. We see this in gaming too.

 

[Mr Oblong]

Its the same short termism which is affecting a lot of companies. See what happened to Apple and Samsung,they allowed cheaper Chinese companies room,since they only cared about margins. In the end Chinese companies have a huge percentage of the phone market now(it would be even worse if Huawei wasn't in trouble). A few years ago they were nowhere. Considering what is happening worldwide(sure credit is cheap,but if people have no jobs,how are they going to pay it back in the near future?),I am not sure how long tech stocks can maintain the momentum. Give it a few years and I can see another tech bubble crash,as margin improvements start to stall.



I think they will price them high,if they can match/beat the RTX3080 and RTX3090,and have better power consumption. In fact the only thing which might force them to price it better,is the worse RT performance and lack of a DLSS alternative. But we saw once AMD won over Intel,their 6C and 8C CPUs now cost more than Intel.So AMD pricing lower,and giving all the niceties was more a function of them being worse in some aspects than the competition. The same with Intel and Nvidia,once they are behind they act more reasonable too. Its not shocking - we saw how they acted during the Athlon 64 era. They went from price/performance and long platforms,to expensive CPUs,multiple platforms,two of which had short lifespans(socket 754 and QuadFX),etc.

It's certainly risking their reputation with the value conscious enthusiast. Dangerous game potentially, in the long term like you say.

 

[Twinz]

Everyone said Nvidia wanted proffit too and they were shocked when they dropped a card that was faster and cheaper than the 2080Ti.

Supply will eventually work itself out and, conspiracies not withstanding, we will get better than 2080Ti performance for less money...and the companies will still proffit.

Companies can make a proffit and provide value at the same time.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It's certainly risking their reputation with the value conscious enthusiast. Dangerous game potentially, in the long term like you say.

The accountants and stock pushers don't care. Its starting to be a real problem in Europe/US now. Other parts of the world are starting to get closer to us because they are driven to improve their situation,not only for financial means,but nationalistic reasons too. Countries such as Japan,South Korea,Taiwan and China came from nowhere,whilst our lot were more worried about the next quarter(just look at our car and consumer electronics industries now).

But over here,it all has to be passed first via accountants,stock pushers,etc. You saw this with Intel - they literally were so obssessed about margins,they held back on innovating and let AMD get a foot in. But it's also happened to AMD during the Athlon 64 era,where they relaxed and let Intel get a foot in,and we saw what happened there.

In the end WRT to these GPUs,the only reason I can see AMD pricing them much better,is if the RT performance deficit is noticeable.

Even if it isn't AMD really shouldn't try and price them very high anyway,because Nvidia will improve its supply,etc so AMD have to weary of looking too short term either. Nvidia after all sponsors more of the bigger games,and has more mindshare too. They need to build some goodwill on the GPU side too.

 

[Mr Oblong]

The accountants and stock pushers don't care. Its starting to be a real problem in Europe/US now. Other parts of the world are starting to get closer to us because they are driven to improve their situation,not only for financial means,but nationalistic reasons too. Countries such as Japan,South Korea,Taiwan and China came from nowhere,whilst our lot were more worried about the next quarter(just look at our car and consumer electronics industries now).

But over here,it all has to be passed first via accountants,stock pushers,etc. You saw this with Intel - they literally were so obssessed about margins,they held back on innovating and let AMD get a foot in. But it's also happened to AMD during the Athlon 64 era,where they relaxed and let Intel get a foot in,and we saw what happened there.

In the end WRT to these GPUs,the only reason I can see AMD pricing them much better,is if the RT performance deficit is noticeable.

Even if it isn't AMD really shouldn't try and price them very high anyway,because Nvidia will improve its supply,etc so AMD have to weary of looking too short term either. Nvidia after all sponsors more of the bigger games,and has more mindshare too. They need to build some goodwill on the GPU side too.

It's their chosen way of pricing, skim at a high price, reduce a little and skim again. Repeat.

It's not so fun for early adopters.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It's their chosen way of pricing, skim at a high price, reduce a little and skim again. Repeat.

It's not so fun for early adopters.

The problem is now the accountants have realised,if they can price the new generation much higher,they can sell off the older generation without much of a price reduction. Then if the new higher price for the new generation still has OK enough sales,that is the new price. Basically the market is dependent on the opposition trying to have a disruptive product in terms of performance or pricing, or consumers basically refusing to pay the higher prices.

 

[humbug]

Exactly - look at how when they knew they had a winner with Zen3,they priced the CPUs more than the equivalent Intel ones per core. They also quietly jacked the pricing up on their motherboards too,and nearly blocked 400 series motherboard users from being able to upgrade(until the community complained about it).

Wait for the 5600 none X, $220, $20 more than the 3600.

 

[Mr Oblong]

The problem is now the accountants have realised,if they can price the new generation much higher,they can sell off the older generation without much of a price reduction. Then if the new higher price for the new generation still has OK enough sales,that is the new price. Basically the market is dependent on the opposition trying to have a disruptive product in terms of performance or pricing, or consumers basically refusing to pay the higher prices.

Yep. The iPhone 7 releases at a higher price and the iPhone 6 is sold as the 'budget' option.

 

[Martini1991]

Wait for the 5600 none X, $220, $20 more than the 3600.

Doesn't exist yet does it?

 

[humbug]

Doesn't exist yet does it?

Thats why i said wait

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Thats why i said wait

If I recall correctly amd isn't doing that at all this time. As they can fit either 6 or 8 cores into one ccx.

 

[sideways14a]

5600 will be out later in the cycle once they build up enough chips that fit its criteria i bet.

 

[elroberto]

Got my 3600 for £180 or less brand new last year in October as I recall. Overclocks like a champ at 4.4GHz on all cores 24/7. Been rock solid. At 4K there is zero need for me to upgrade and I will only grab a 5900X once people are selling them on the cheap as they move on to Zen 4

I think this'll be my plan for now too. drop in a 3600 and add the saving into my graphics budget then upgrade CPU again within 12 months when enthusiasts are going gaga for Zen4. Of course what GPU remains up in the air. I wanted the 3070 but if AMD can push me up a tier at a similar cost then I'm open to it, even if I'll miss out on CUDA acceleration for DaVinci Resolve.

 

[Sedgey123]

Im sure its been asked but any idea what CPU they were using for these leaked benchmarks?

 

[thenewoc]

Since you only get pro performance with a true titan from the NV side, I'm very interested to see how 6900XT will perform. Whether they've jettisoned compute too much to pursue the 3090 or whether the 6900XT will also perform well in compute and be touted as the best to excel at gaming and pro tasks like they're doing with the 5950X.

 

[humbug]

If I recall correctly amd isn't doing that at all this time. As they can fit either 6 or 8 cores into one ccx.

They are the same 6 core CPU.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

They are the same 6 core CPU.

I had read somewhere AMD wasn't doing none x variants.