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AMD on the road to recovery.
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Soldato
But it is, you were using percentages for the 4080 and now you stopped. I mean come on, the bias is so obvious.....the 4080 is 62% overpriced, the 7900xt is more than 100%.
So you are saying Nvidia forced AMD to overprice their cards? I mean come on now....
I don't ever remember amd having better valued cards against nvidia the last like, 5+ years. From polaris, to vega (LOL), to rdna2, their cards had usually worse value at launch.
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Soldato
Its pretty simple. We are saying:
Reworded for you. No need to defend it, just fact.
There's a lot to unpack that has been mashed in there. On what basis can you claim that Intel's practice in 00's wasn't illegal, particularity when you later state it is yet to be determined (or probably more accurately sent back to be likely re-determined).
And okay basically everyone, amd included, does the same, to the same extent and impact, great. Who did it affect and how, maybe approach someone in the CJEU? And how is that relevant to an action that Intel took in the 00's? It's a meaningless smokescreen to throw that in.
Saying other companies do and have done similar (but not this specific event) is neither here nor there. It's not relevant to the Intel case, or a particularly good defence anyway to say that other companies may or may not have engaged in legal or illegal activities.
As to GPU pricing, and AMD pricing vs Nvidia, and consumers not liking the pricing, again what has that got to do with the Intel case of specific anti-competitive behaviour in the 00's? Nothing.
A fair summary of the Intel case would be: There was a judgment Intel in a specific set of circumstances did harm competition with their anticompetitive practices, followed by a fine, then a judgement that a test applied (which was not strictly necessary, considered unreliable but was conducted anyway) as a component part of the wider assessment and evaluation didn't quite follow correct procedure and so needs to be corrected, and in the meantime the fine is annulled. On balance things are clearly strongly leaning one way. It may not be the same big old fine as before, but lets just leave them to it.
In response to your rhetorical question; that you want to paint this in a favourable light, as though Intel was in effect 'acquitted' (when no such thing has happened), for a set of actions which you also accept was/is immoral, perhaps also says something about your sensitivity towards Intel.
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I said the 4080 is 72% more expensive than the 3080, it is... don't twist what i said.
Half of $900 is $450. To get to 100% overpriced you would double what you think the cost should be, you think it should be $450.
AMD slot their cards in somewhere behind Nvidia, as much as they think they can get away with, but always behind Nvidia. Nvidia set pricing.
I'm not saying what AMD are doing in that is good and proper, it is not, but the reality is people arguing AMD have no right to price X or Y because they don't hold the same value as Nvidia does nothing other than justify Nvidia./
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Soldato
And since we agreed it's price should be 699, it currently is 65 - 70% overpriced. Right? Going by the same logic, a 7900xt should be around 450 to 500, yet the cheapest in EU is 969. That's 110% overpriced. Even going with the 500€ price, it's still 90% overpriced. Even going with 550, its 75% overpriced. So clearly, it's more overpriced than the 4080, no? Please, enlighten me
But they never really did that. Remember vega? Polaris? Even RDNA2, the 6800xt was literally 50$ less than the 3080.
I never said AMD have no right to price the products whatever they feel like. I have absolutely no problem, they can ask for 5k $ for all I care. What I'm saying is, the reactions are always towards nvidia, even when they actually have products with better value, like in the case of the 4070ti. That's something that no matter what, you just can't deny.
What AMD is doing is kinda despicable, and sadly they are using you and people like you to do it. They price as high or even higher than Nvidia cause they know they can get away with it, since people will just complain about nvidia throughout all social forums reddit and the likes, no matter what. It's the same crap with CPU's as well, they keep selling the same 6 cores for the last 7 years, with ever increasing prices mind you (from 200€ for a 6 core we are now at 300 for the last 2 gens). At least when Intel kept the same amount of cores all those years, they didn't creep up the prices by 50 freaking %. So yeah, the internet is full of amd defenders that think everyone around them that tries to talk some sense into them are intel or nvidia fanboys. It's nuts.
Only if i agree the 7900XT should be $200 to $250 cheaper than the 4080, what you're doing now is trying to get me to argue a price higher than your suggestion, and $200 cheaper than the 6800XT.
I would argue the 6800XT was not an unreasonable price.
The 6800XT was $649, the 7900XT is 27% faster.
I would also argue the 3080 was not an unreasonable price.
The 3080 was $699, the 4080 is 40% faster.
From that its not difficult to come to a rational consensus.
Edited: 4080 from 50% to 40% faster after double checking TPU.
I would argue the 6800XT was not an unreasonable price.
The 6800XT was $649, the 7900XT is 27% faster.
I would also argue the 3080 was not an unreasonable price.
The 3080 was $699, the 4080 is 40% faster.
From that its not difficult to come to a rational consensus.
Edited: 4080 from 50% to 40% faster after double checking TPU.
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What AMD is doing is kinda despicable and Intel is a cuddly toy and Nvidia is a charitable companyAnd since we agreed it's price should be 699, it currently is 65 - 70% overpriced. Right? Going by the same logic, a 7900xt should be around 450 to 500, yet the cheapest in EU is 969. That's 110% overpriced. Even going with the 500€ price, it's still 90% overpriced. Even going with 550, its 75% overpriced. So clearly, it's more overpriced than the 4080, no? Please, enlighten me
But they never really did that. Remember vega? Polaris? Even RDNA2, the 6800xt was literally 50$ less than the 3080.
I never said AMD have no right to price the products whatever they feel like. I have absolutely no problem, they can ask for 5k $ for all I care. What I'm saying is, the reactions are always towards nvidia, even when they actually have products with better value, like in the case of the 4070ti. That's something that no matter what, you just can't deny.
What AMD is doing is kinda despicable, and sadly they are using you and people like you to do it. They price as high or even higher than Nvidia cause they know they can get away with it, since people will just complain about nvidia throughout all social forums reddit and the likes, no matter what. It's the same crap with CPU's as well, they keep selling the same 6 cores for the last 7 years, with ever increasing prices mind you (from 200€ for a 6 core we are now at 300 for the last 2 gens). At least when Intel kept the same amount of cores all those years, they didn't creep up the prices by 50 freaking %. So yeah, the internet is full of amd defenders that think everyone around them that tries to talk some sense into them are intel or nvidia fanboys. It's nuts.
fixed that for you
Soldato
Intel is actually gods gift in the low to midrange. Are you even paying any attention? They offered entry level alderlake cpu's in the low end, and their midrange parts had a lot more cores, resulting in much higher MT performance. You can see the trend today as well, with the 13600k against the 7600x.
Ignore mode is the best tactic with that one, would argue black was white.
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Not as bad as some tech stocks. Still doing well in DC
www.streetinsider.com
AMD revenue beats targets, Wall St relieved after Intel's grim outlook
By Chavi Mehta and Jane Lanhee Lee (Reuters) -U.S. chip maker Advanced Micro Devices Inc on Tuesday posted revenue that beat Wall Street targets and said it expected business to improve in...
Not as bad as some tech stocks. Still doing well in DC
AMD revenue beats targets, Wall St relieved after Intel's grim outlook
By Chavi Mehta and Jane Lanhee Lee (Reuters) -U.S. chip maker Advanced Micro Devices Inc on Tuesday posted revenue that beat Wall Street targets and said it expected business to improve in...
Yup, they beat estimations by $80 Million, not huge but still higher than expected which in this climate is very good.
$5.6 billion turnover for Q4 2022
Gross profits $2.4 Billion (43%) down 7 percentage points from 2021.
Operating expenses $2.56 billion
Operating income was $149 million loss due to amortization of intangible assets associated to Xilinx, what this means is AMD overpaid for Xlinx and that difference in fair value vs what AMD actually paid for it is calculated end of year and recorded as a loss, $1.4 billion for that, even though its not actually a physical loss.
Revenue by segment:
Data centre. $1.7 billion, up 42% Y/Y, income was $444 million, 27% margins.
Client. $0.9 billion, down 52% Y/Y, loss of $152 million. This due to weak PC shipments.
Gaming. $1.6 billion, down 7% Y/Y, income of $266 million, 16%.
Embedded. $1.4 billion, up 1,868% Y/Y, income $699 million, 50%.
Annual revenue 2022.
$24.1 billion, up 20% vs 2021.
Outlook, AMD expects $5.3 billion in Q1 2023 with 50% margins.
AMD's total tangible assets and free cash: $67.58 billion
Total debts and liabilities: $6.37 billion.
Pretty good, still.
This article sums it up.
AMD: Shake It Off
Advanced Micro Devices reported Q4 earnings and expenses are still very high and PC demand still is poor. Click here for our full take on AMD earnings.
seekingalpha.com
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Technically it is pretty common. GTX 780 had worse perf/$ than the 680 it replaced. 980Ti had worse perf/$ than the 780Ti it replaced depending on what you think it was replacing. Even the 1080Ti had worse perf/$ vs the 980ti it replaced apart from at 4K where it was about the same. This is comparing the new parts MSRP to the old parts street price.
Usually though the x70 tier product will offer a huge perf/$ advantage over prior gen. The 1070 was faster than the 980Ti and it was cheaper. The 970 was about the same perf as the 780Ti but was a lot cheaper. Even the 3070 @ MSRP vs the 2080Ti was a great example of the usual thing happening.
This go around the 4090 does actually offer a perf/$ advantage over the parts it replaces but the 4080 and 4070Ti are pretty stagnant.
EDIT. With the 4070Ti it is about on par with the 3090Ti @ 1080p and 1440p so I guess it does offer this but the 3090Ti is still pretty stupidly priced. Vs the 3090 there is a small perf/$ gain and you get more perf at 1440p and the same perf @4k but with just 12GB of ram on a 192 bit bus I can see that kicking you in the nads if you want to do 4K or even 1440p + RT. Look at Dead Space. At 4K the 4070Ti is about the same speed as a 3080. A few more titles like that and the 7900XT vs 4070Ti matchup will swing really heavily towards the AMD part. In Dead Space the 7900XT is 40% faster.
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However, I still think that AMD is well on the way to recovery.Technically it is pretty common. GTX 780 had worse perf/$ than the 680 it replaced. 980Ti had worse perf/$ than the 780Ti it replaced depending on what you think it was replacing. Even the 1080Ti had worse perf/$ vs the 980ti it replaced apart from at 4K where it was about the same. This is comparing the new parts MSRP to the old parts street price.
Usually though the x70 tier product will offer a huge perf/$ advantage over prior gen. The 1070 was faster than the 980Ti and it was cheaper. The 970 was about the same perf as the 780Ti but was a lot cheaper. Even the 3070 @ MSRP vs the 2080Ti was a great example of the usual thing happening.
This go around the 4090 does actually offer a perf/$ advantage over the parts it replaces but the 4080 and 4070Ti are pretty stagnant.
EDIT. With the 4070Ti it is about on par with the 3090Ti @ 1080p and 1440p so I guess it does offer this but the 3090Ti is still pretty stupidly priced. Vs the 3090 there is a small perf/$ gain and you get more perf at 1440p and the same perf @4k but with just 12GB of ram on a 192 bit bus I can see that kicking you in the nads if you want to do 4K or even 1440p + RT. Look at Dead Space. At 4K the 4070Ti is about the same speed as a 3080. A few more titles like that and the 7900XT vs 4070Ti matchup will swing really heavily towards the AMD part. In Dead Space the 7900XT is 40% faster.
AMD is on the way to being bigger than Intel. Quarterly revenue forecast for Q1 is about 50% of Intels. Q1 2017 AMD had $984M in revenue vs Intel $14.8B in revenue. If AMD and Intel meet their Q1 2023 goals then AMD will have gone from 6.8% of Intels quarterly revenue to 50% of Intels quarterly revenue in 6 years and when it comes to DC Intel still don't have anything to compete with really. SPR will be for niche workloads but Genoa and Bergarmo and Sienna are really going to eat Intels lunch.
MLID always speaking to industry insiders asked them what they thought of the Intel vs AMD situation for the future, some shrugged and said "Intel making AMD products"
Intel has a very good thing in their foundry busniss, even if they can't quite match TSMC they are still one of the top foundries and that's really important, Intel are not going anywhere, but as a company they could be quite different to how we are used to seeing them, and sooner than we think.
Intel has a very good thing in their foundry busniss, even if they can't quite match TSMC they are still one of the top foundries and that's really important, Intel are not going anywhere, but as a company they could be quite different to how we are used to seeing them, and sooner than we think.
will this affect Intel chip prices?
finance.yahoo.com
Intel cuts CEO pay by 25% as a chip glut wipes out profits—and even middle managers will take a salary hit
Intel is slashing its CEO pay by 25%—but cuts aren't just limited to executives.
finance.yahoo.com
From what i've read is that this won't affect the stocks that are already out there and that these price cuts are maybe for just OEMs only.#will this affect Intel chip prices?
Intel cuts CEO pay by 25% as a chip glut wipes out profits—and even middle managers will take a salary hit
Intel is slashing its CEO pay by 25%—but cuts aren't just limited to executives.
But these are all just speculation on those parts.