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AMD Polaris architecture – GCN 4.0

Sony do something similar on the Ps4. I tried it on battlefront while i was watching a mates stream and he handed me the control so to say. The input lag was pretty bad but i could still play not to bad apart from being hammered at the time :D:D:D. The input lag was off putting but it was ok for a quick shot.

If cloud gaming feels anything like that then i would not be paying anything for the experience. Kids would probably not be to bothered and i could see parents looking to this as a cheap gaming option.
 
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Yup it wasn't that long ago that I was happy playing games with a 64k single ISDN connection giving me pings around 150ms, it is surprising what you can get used too.
 
Of course it is not great compared to playing on a modern high spec gaming Pc, but it is a start and possibly one of the futures of gaming. Just think I bet blockbusters would have never thought they would be put out of business by online movie streaming, I can see it happening to gaming at some point in the future. Most certainly the tech isn't good enough yet though.

If a console maker was to build a cheap, simple streaming console around this tech, with the whole gimmick being you never have to buy another game, just pay their monthly service fee. Not too dissimilar to XBox's games for gold, where they keep you paying for the service with free games every month.

The whole game streaming phenomenon was blown out of proportion. And the difference between it and movies/music is that it is an interactive service that is time critical.

Movie and music streaming are not hindered by latency. Although Local streaming is fine for gaming, the internet is not a good medium for it unless you had a dedicated backbone around the country that just served game streaming traffic. But even then it can still be touchy.


Yup it wasn't that long ago that I was happy playing games with a 64k single ISDN connection giving me pings around 150ms, it is surprising what you can get used too.

Difference there is that everyone was hindered by high ping. But with a game streaming service your actual latency would have been 300+ for the roundtrip then any server to server latency for the multiplayer part. :P
 
It may well be forced upon us but i certainly don't welcome it.

People like Microsoft and Sony would also have to change their marketing, what it is that they are selling you.
At the moment even with consoles its all about visual quality, even console gamers want high fidelity gaming, even if half of them are mislead about what that is and have never seen a high performance PC in action.
MS / Sony are not going to invest in the hardware to give everyone high fidelity Gaming because of the logistics and costs.
Yeah i think the idea is unstoppable, and i think it will effect us as well as Origin / Steam ect.... will all want to get on the stream for a recurring fee bandwagon.
 
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Yeah, the more R&D spent on cloud gaming the better.... because it's god awful, will always be god awful and can't physically not be god awful.

VR they are all aiming for 90hz to be smooth, reduce potential sickness inducing feelings... but cloud gaming with a normally 200ms latency... that is the future. Cloud gaming can't and won't overcome the limits of travelling across multiple network links, then being processed then travelling back before being delivered to the user. Until you can make cloud gaming provide sub one frame communication time frames it can't and won't ever replace local gaming in responsiveness, quality or feel. People on these forums complain about input lag from v-sync which is typically in the 16-32ms range, but cloud gaming with 10 times the latency is somehow going to be great. Cloud gaming is about as responsive as it's ever going to get and Onlive sucks with most people hating it because latency is way way way way way ...... way way way way way too high. Until physics can be broken, communication at beyond the speed of light and a network infrastructure which means passing on signals takes a tiny tiny fraction of what it does now at each stage then cloud gaming is a pipe dream. Pipe dream is the wrong word for it, I can't think of a single benefit to cloud gaming over gaming on your own PC at all. Modding, gone, changing settings to your own preference, likely gone (for stability/ease of making sure the game works having one setting is far easier their end), great resolution/ever increasing quality, gone. You don't have to buy your own PC is about the only upside of cloud gaming. But I want my own PC, I want to play games the way they suit me, I want higher fps even at the expense of quality, I want to turn off 'high' settings that actually reduce IQ like motion blur/DOF, I want to be able to mod games. Cloud gaming is **** and offers no real world benefits to anything but casual gamers who might sub for a month here or there to play the odd game.

I would prefer AMD spent as little of the money I gave them on something that has no chance of ever providing viable gaming for home users personally and if some third party company of idiots wants to use AMD hardware to provide a cloud service I won't ever use I'd far prefer that over AMD wasting money providing the same **** service. Out of interest, how many Nvidia users on here do you think have or would give up their PC and use GRID over a Shield like device connected to a TV instead... 0%, 0.00002%?

Also hardware virtualisation on AMD hardware has very little to do with cloud gaming, it isn't the intention or reason it was implemented.

If you have enough processing power, it doesn't make sense to do any sort of processing in the Cloud. But if you don't, it can be very useful. For example, I understand shadow maps aren't that latency-sensitive but can be quite intensive to compute. So a game could do this and get improved graphics on the XB1, for example.
 
Yup it wasn't that long ago that I was happy playing games with a 64k single ISDN connection giving me pings around 150ms, it is surprising what you can get used too.

A ping of 150ms is a completely different situation.

In an online game with 150ms ping your game engine is still operating at say 5-45ms per frame and your movement/input lag will be below that as well, it's just players within your game would sometimes jump about within your normally running game. That is a complete different concept to the entire game having crappy lag and everything you do doesn't appear to you until 150ms later. Also that 150ms is the return trip for information with exceptionally little processing going on at the other end. With cloud gaming that 150ms would be the minimum, on top of that you would have the frame being processed.

I assume your not a fan of the cloud based gaming tech them DM or is it just the currant state of the implementation of it ?

Anything about how it currently runs is woeful, nothing even connected to how they run at the moment is feasible for even 'good' gaming, let alone anything like what you can do at home today. All modding, gone, high IQ, gone, low latency, gone.

If you take say me playing GTA v now, I can get 120fps easily with xfire, that means movement I make in the game can be updated every 8ms or so, no perceivable input lag and smooth as butter gaming at the settings I chose. Take that to streaming and one, they wouldn't provide me with xfire 290s level of performance so IQ takes a nose dive, 120hz, no chance, no where near as smooth, mods, no chance. But more importantly, my input has to go to them to be processed which means I turn, it gets, even with a great ping 15ms later to them, gets processed which if lucky would be at 60hz kind of performance so another 16ms later, then it has to come back to me. So realistically the minimum input latency will be 45ms. In reality more processing needs to be done, the image needs to be compressed, it has to be fiddled with at this end before being displayed and the last I heard Grid and other game streaming services were in the 200ms or above range, with 200ms considered good performance considering what is achievable today.

Even at it's absolute best, if you could rent 2 high end gpus and get 120hz of high IQ stuff back... and they created a cloud network that had almost negligible excess lag, on a freaking awesome connection you will get 45ms input latency.... which is effectively 10 times worse than what I have gaming at home.

The tech isn't there and likely won't ever be because basic connections across the internet are surprisingly fast already. Accessing a server somewhere within the local area 8-10ms is as low as you will realistically ever get. You have to go through routing hardware in the box you're connected to, at the exchange that box is connected to, from that exchange to your ISP's link to a backbone, from backbone to the server and then back. Into and out of multiple routers determines a realistic minimum latency that honestly won't ever be overcome. These things use fibre optics and the speed of light for most of the communication stages.

Latency sensitive applications suck on the internet, things that aren't sensitive to latency like video/music are awesome. I've tried onlive, it was horrendous for a single player type game, multiplayer through a cloud gaming service would only compound the issue and become horrific.
 
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Mostly the packet switching and processing that adds the latency. the physical connections themselves are not so bad unless they have repeaters along their length.

Yup, the point being, processing at every point will always happen and the getting from one end to the other is already at the limit of what can be achieved. There isn't really anywhere for dramatic speed optimisations to occur... except bringing servers closer to the users which defeats the entire purpose as the only way to have the servers closer for everyone is a exponential increase in the number of servers and you may as well keep the computers in peoples houses.
 
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