AMD Radeon R9 290X with Hawaii GPU pictured, has 512-bit 4GB Memory

Marine-RX179 · 19 Oct 2013 at 12:53

Noxia said:
I wonder how interesting Mantle is to those who don't give two figs about BF4. If it wasn't for that game I don't know how else they'd be trying to push it. I don't intend on getting BF4 so when I see it mentioned every single time in conjunction with these new cards it puts me off bit. That said, I'm sort of patient so I'm willing to wait and see.

It's not just BF4 though...but also dozens of future titles from EA. But yea if you absolutely won't play any titles from EA, then it is pointless.

Suarez7 · 19 Oct 2013 at 12:55

Here's some interesting views on Mantle:

The fact nvidia let them discuss it at their conference says a lot, they clearly aren't worried about it.

Noxia · 19 Oct 2013 at 12:56

I'll play most games if it's good

Just not interested in BF4. I kind wish they'd all just join forces and put all this stuff together, or a new player entered the game (never gonna happen) I hate propriety stuff.

Frenzy · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:03

Suarez7 said:
Oh dear, paying people to show off your tech? What you mean like the 8 million AMD have payed Dice/EA? You could use that argument for both techs.

I didn't say that AMD did not do this. I fully expect it from both sides. I'm saying that the difference to gameplay that they say gsync will bring seems exaggerated. I've worked for companies which have been payed by both parties to ensure their side comes out on top.
I think some people need to look at how their post comes across before hitting the "submit reply" button. It really kills constructive discussion.

Suarez7 said:
Shadowplay can't be done with current software, it has virtually no overheads and much smaller filesizes whilst maintaining awesome quality. The same goes with their one click twitch streaming, very little overheads and a better image output.

What are the overheads? I don't really record due to having a poor internet connection (changed last week to fiber though!). So is there a significant difference? What are we talking here, 10 fps?

Suarez7 said:
Mantle isn't being used in the new consoles, well not the XB1 anyway and I'm willing to bet the PS4 won't use it either, they use their own API's.

I've just watched the video, and that point has now been made clear. I was under the impression that mantle would be the go to for both consoles, clearly not. Now it seems like another gimmick to me.

FoxEye said:
I don't see how it could, if you already turn V-sync off. Surely V-sync off gives you the lowest lag possible, as the monitor refresh rate is totally independent of draw time.

So what's the big deal about gsync then? Just the fact that gameplay should "seem" smoother?

benjii said:
So no matter how good or bad Mantle is, it will equate to more work for the developers.

Yep, if anything that will be its downfall. Devs don't want to waste time on unnessecary features. It should be about making it easier for the devs.

edit:

I still think AMD has the overall advantage. I mean, who is going to care about shadowplay if they don't stream, who is going to care about gsync if they don't have the issue?
I was thinking along the same lines suarez, mantle offers raw performance gains (with work) it seems like the better gimmick.

EL_NEO · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:17

Frenzy said:
I didn't say that AMD did not do this. I fully expect it from both sides. I'm saying that the difference to gameplay that they say gsync will bring seems exaggerated. I've worked for companies which have been payed by both parties to ensure their side comes out on top.
I think some people need to look at how their post comes across before hitting the "submit reply" button. It really kills constructive discussion.

What are the overheads? I don't really record due to having a poor internet connection (changed last week to fiber though!). So is there a significant difference? What are we talking here, 10 fps?

I've just watched the video, and that point has now been made clear. I was under the impression that mantle would be the go to for both consoles, clearly not. Now it seems like another gimmick to me.

So what's the big deal about gsync then? Just the fact that gameplay should "seem" smoother?

Yep, if anything that will be its downfall. Devs don't want to waste time on unnessecary features. It should be about making it easier for the devs.

edit:

I still think AMD has the overall advantage. I mean, who is going to care about shadowplay if they don't stream, who is going to care about gsync if they don't have the issue?
I was thinking along the same lines suarez, mantle offers raw performance gains (with work) it seems like the better gimmick.

NVIDIA G-SYNC Overview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZyhCKH8IbQ

VincentHanna · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:18

I don't mean to be negative on G-sync as it genuinly looks like a great thing.

But unless they can get it put in to all TV's, monitors etc which I don't really see happening then it's not going to be a game-changer because only those that can afford/want a new monitor will buy it.

As i'm a sofa gamer, i'm hardly about to replace my £1500 Plasma bought less than 6 months ago for a G-sync device.

So in that respect i'm looking at a single GPU that gives great performance at a reasonable price level and G-sync wouldn't be part of that decision.

Jono8 · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:20

I dont have any strong feelings on either to be honest.

Mantle, who knows. Could just be rubbish. Could be great for AMD users. No one really knows yet.

G Sync, would need to try it myself before passing judgement. I would probably need a new monitor which i dont intend on buying till mine breaks/for a few years to be honest. more useful than 3d audio though that is for sure . At least Nvidia are concentrating on the graphics/visual side of things.

LtMatt · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:22

FoxEye said:
I don't see how it could, if you already turn V-sync off. Surely V-sync off gives you the lowest lag possible, as the monitor refresh rate is totally independent of draw time.

This was the point/question i was trying to raise last night, rather unsuccessfully.

Gregster · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:25

Shadowplay gives ~ a 2% hit to performance according to the showcase yesterday.

In a nutshell.

Mantle = faster raw fps in Dice games for AMD
True Audio = 3D surround with added realism for AMD
G-Sync = smoother gameplay on G-Sync enabled monitors for Nvidia
Shadowplay = game recording with very little hit to performance for Nvidia
New PhysX effects = possibly more visual effects in games for Nvidia

All good things for both AMD and Nvidia and such a shame we couldn't have all on one GPU regardless of brand.

humbug · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:30

Suarez7 said:
Here's some interesting views on Mantle:

The fact nvidia let them discuss it at their conference says a lot, they clearly aren't worried about it.

lol... how ironic

Nvidia brings in a couple of developers to say that Mantle is ok but its not so good because it essentially amounts to a proprietary API and the industry doesn't like that, Good Grief.....

Nvidia has been using proprietary API's to gain an advantage over AMD for may years, this will only ramp up now, this is how its going to be, its not going to be long before developers will have to develop a game twice, one for each brand of GPU.

I would ask those 3 clowns what they think should be done about this situation.

Suarez7 · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:30

Ignorance at its finest from humbug.

Jokester · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:31

Mantle's only going to give a performance improvement if your CPU is the bottleneck I'm guessing.

humbug · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:34

Suarez7 said:
Ignorance at its finest from humbug.

those 3, yes I agree....

Marine-RX179 · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:34

Jokester said:
Mantle's only going to give a performance improvement if your CPU is the bottleneck I'm guessing.

I think it would be more along the line of the performance consistence and reliability would be better than any drivers for windows/directx could ever hope to achieve.

There's no doubt it would be better, but the questions remains- better by how much.

Suarez7 · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:39

humbug said:
those 3, yes I agree....

Of course you would.

They've spoken honestly about it all saying proprietary isn't the way to go for the industry but they can see why it happens from a practical view.

It seems just because they've talked mantle down and stopped the hype train from people saying it's going to replace DirectX you think they must be wrong.

As for calling them 3 clowns, pathetic.

layte · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:41

humbug said:
I would ask those 3 clowns what they think should be done about this situation.

lol

humbug · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:44

They've spoken honestly about it all saying proprietary isn't the way to go for the industry but they can see why it happens from a practical view.

@ Suarez7, would you like to explain what should be done about proprietary standards.

Gregster · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:47

I did hope after a good nights sleep and time to take all what was happening in, some posters would look at things a little more objectively...Happens not

I am looking forward to seeing what you bring to the gaming industry Humbug. Calling John Carmack a clown is the biggest insult ever. He has brought so much to gaming and we would be no where near where we are today if it wasn't for him.

Aurhinius · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:47

As Gibbo said and I totally agree - If G-Sync is such a good technology expect to see the AMD version very shortly.

Monitor vendors will not care whether you are AMD OR Nvidia they will implement the tech as it sells new monitors.

It's just surround gaming again. Nvidia does surround, ATI/AMD do Eyefinity.

AMD will respond to this and fast I suspect if it has that industry support.

AMD TrueAudio is interesting but as of yet we don't know that a single developer will make use of it. Features are great but left unimplemented makes them rapidly redundant.

I do however agree good audio in games is equally as important as visual cues infact you respond faster to a audible cue than you do to a visual que. Good research done on this so it shouldn't be under-estimated.

What would probably of more benefit is Microsoft go back and review windows as a gaming OS. Working on the API's, network, sound and graphical.
The sad thing ultimately is we should be getting all of these technologies on our graphics cards whether AMD or NVidia.

LtMatt · 19 Oct 2013 at 13:48

Gregster said:
I did hope after a good nights sleep and time to take all what was happening in, some posters would look at things a little more objectively...Happens not

A quick read of the mantle thread should have told you that.