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AMD what you doing to fight off Alderlake?
- Thread starter subbytna
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Soldato
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2011
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- 3,629
This. 3d cache will slay the alderlakes, combined with real 16 cores. Also Zen 4 with ddr5 will push it further. Don't even get me started about Intel's tdp.....
i wasn't aware that alder lake uses fake cores, please tell me more oh good lord, thy church of Lisa su, let us kiss thy feet and suck thy toe
Soldato
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2011
- Posts
- 3,629
I mean, even with a mixture of performance and "e cores", the tdp is horrendous. Once the Zen 3 refresh is released with 3d vcache, 16 ryzen cores with the same sort of IPC as Intel's 8 performance cores, it'll be back to business as usual for AMD. I'm not a fan boy, but I'll state that I intend on purchasing Alderlake. That said, with Apple ARM cores and Ryzen tdp essentially trying to become more power efficient, intel is heading the wrong way.
That's all well and good for the 5950X but how will chips like the 5600x and 5800x make up productivity deficits of around 40% on the competing parts by adding a bit more cache?.
Also while efficiency is poor on the 12900k the Sku's lower down the stack match their ryzen counterparts for efficiency since their power useage is offset by the extra work done so the architecture is working pretty well In that case.
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Call it a day farming profit margin and reprice in answer to Intels new chips.
That assumes that AMD refresh their entire Zen3 lineup with 3D cache, I had read that because there is still a shortage of silicon that they may only refresh select CPU’s. Other than the 3D cache are there any other reported improvements for Zen3+ like improved clock rates or other optimisations?
That would be great for consumers as that's what supposed to happen with competition.
To make 12600K + Z690 cost the same as 5800X + B550 I am assume DDR4 ram. We don't know if Raptor Lake or Meteor Lake will support DDR4 at all so there is no guarantee those who buy into the DDR4 Z690 platform will get those future CPUs.
If you go DDR5 with your 12600K you are very close to 5900X + X570 pricing.
At the moment there are good arguments to go either way. With B660 + 12400 and Zen 3d that might change and a certain price point might have an obvious choice but right now at current pricing that is not the case.
Moving to 16 cores opens up a lot more possible product lines and increasing the amount cache should see some solid gains without needing to do a major design overhaul.
Thank you @timorous for actually making the point in a succinct and unambiguous fashion.
Alder Lake's performance numbers come with inflated costs which largely nullify the entire "Alder Lake is better" argument, yet it appears everybody from the tech press, the Intel shills and (as a result), the casuals are just not understanding this. There's been a few people on these forums lambasting Zen 3 with the "performance for what you pay" argument, yet that's suddenly not an issue any more because Intel are competitive again.
Is the 12600K a great CPU? Damn straight it is. Does it beat the 5600X around the chops? Oh yes. But that's utterly moot if your 12600K system costs the same as a 5900X system.
The entire "AMD must lower prices" argument does not even come into play until Intel's B and H boards release, THEN we can see proper price/performance comparisons.
Alder Lake's performance numbers come with inflated costs which largely nullify the entire "Alder Lake is better" argument, yet it appears everybody from the tech press, the Intel shills and (as a result), the casuals are just not understanding this. There's been a few people on these forums lambasting Zen 3 with the "performance for what you pay" argument, yet that's suddenly not an issue any more because Intel are competitive again.
Is the 12600K a great CPU? Damn straight it is. Does it beat the 5600X around the chops? Oh yes. But that's utterly moot if your 12600K system costs the same as a 5900X system.
The entire "AMD must lower prices" argument does not even come into play until Intel's B and H boards release, THEN we can see proper price/performance comparisons.
Yeah...
ADL has been on sale for near 2 weeks now, the press have done their best to hype them up and according to the worlds largest Retailer the 5600X, 5800X and 5900X are still out selling them.
Now i would buy the 12700K but Intel's platform is still very expensive.
Doesn't bode well for Intel's shrinking sales and profit margin. Do you think that they need to drop the price to compete with Zen?
Doesn't bode well for Intel's shrinking sales and profit margin. Do you think that they need to drop the price to compete with Zen?
Pricing on the CPU's is good, the problem is people are more savvy than that, they look at the overall cost.
12600K: $320
5800X: $360
MSI PRO Z690-A: $220
MSI B550-A PRO: $150
12600K Cost $540
5800X Cost $510
Some are selling the 5800X for $300, If AMD officially drop the price of the 5800X to $300 it would make the platform cost $100 cheaper vs the Intel system.
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Seems silly to pay early-adopter fees for DDR5, or just plain high prices for the DDR4 variant when you could get a more cost-effective AMD system.
CPU market is getting interesting so I'd give it another 1-2 years before it makes sense for the average user.
Yeah and TBH DDR4 vs DDR5 is a bit of a mixed bag right now, i didn't include the cost of DDR5 on top of Intel's platform, i'm assuming people would do what i would do and get the same RAM kit for the Intel platform i would for the AMD platform.
DDR5 needs time to mature, its not time for it in this round.
As for Pricing, AMD might wait for B660 Motherboard's to hit and evaluate how their CPU sales are effected then, right now it seems like sales are still very good and given their limited manufacturing capacity they may just reallocated what CPU sales they have lost to GPU manufacturing capacity to head off Intel's GPU's.
Both Nvidia and AMD will already be thinking about that and they will not want to be manufacturing capacity constrained when Intel dump their GPU's on the market, they will want to do something about those inflated prices, AMD's focus could simply shift from CPU's to GPU's for a short while.
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Pricing is fine if you go with DDR4, sure you pay a bit more for the board but you get better features and 3 M.2 slots which going forward may well prove very useful.
My basket at Overclockers UK:
My basket at Overclockers UK:
My basket at Overclockers UK:
- 1 x Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4 - Intel Z690 DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £184.99
- 1 x Crucial Ballistix RGB 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit= £74.99
- 1 x Intel Core i5-12600K 3.70GHz (Alder Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - OEM= £269.99
Total: £540.47 (includes shipping: £10.50)
My basket at Overclockers UK:
- 1 x Crucial Ballistix RGB 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit= £74.99
- 1 x MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk (AMD AM4) B550 ATX Motherboard= £129.95
- 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 5800X Eight Core 4.7GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £389.99
Total: £605.43 (includes shipping: £10.50)
Pricing is fine if you go with DDR4, sure you pay a bit more for the board but you get better features and 3 M.2 slots which going forward may well prove very useful.
My basket at Overclockers UK:
- 1 x Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4 - Intel Z690 DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £184.99
- 1 x Crucial Ballistix RGB 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit= £74.99
- 1 x Intel Core i5-12600K 3.70GHz (Alder Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - OEM= £269.99
Total: £540.47 (includes shipping: £10.50)
My basket at Overclockers UK:
- 1 x Crucial Ballistix RGB 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit= £74.99
- 1 x MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk (AMD AM4) B550 ATX Motherboard= £129.95
- 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 5800X Eight Core 4.7GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £389.99
Total: £605.43 (includes shipping: £10.50)
I'm not using OCUK to measure sales or price comparisons, you know that.
OCUK don't publish sales comparisons and you have to use the same source to make the comparisons.
If you choose ddr4 option you won't be able to upgrade, Raptor Lake will be full ddr5 which is fine because by that time ddr5 will be cheaper and faster, and ddr5 only controller wont have compromises as hybrid solution, but if you choose now ddr5 you will overpay it by massive amount, and also no performance benefits because early ddr5 versions are slow.