AMD what you doing to fight off Alderlake?

[jigger]

the 12400 is $200 in Canada

Rishi just reduced long distance flight taxes by 50% too…. I’m thinking KLM (12kg hand luggage) London to Ontario return. Visit my F and F, get full of Labatts and return with 12kg of 12400 chips to keep @Dave2150 in earnings.

ATI is a Canadian firm.

 

[Game]

They do if you clock them high but there not so bad at lower speeds as shown with the 12600k which pulls around the same power as a 5800X with similar MT performance and while in gaming they actually pull less than AMDs CPUs.

be careful what you say the wall have ears

they might lynch you for speaking facts

the 12600k and 12700kf look like absolute beasts no reason to upgrade mine at the minute but might be tempted next year

 

[jigger]

be careful what you say the wall have ears

they might lynch you for speaking facts

the 12600k and 12700kf look like absolute beasts no reason to upgrade mine at the minute but might be tempted next year

Great sense of humour you have.

The 12700T might be a beast under the proper conditions. It’s the most promising Alder lake chip by a very long way.

 

[Game]

LOL! Such a youngster, to not experience the days when you could massively expand your ZX81 from 1KB to a massive 16KB ram pack! We've come a long, long way in the last forty years of home computing.

never got around to that one but did sell my zx81 and spectrum a couple of years ago

my friend had a Dragon forgot what that had

 

[humbug]

That slide Dave posted.

Previous generation Intel CPU's 10900K and 11900K using near 200 Watts in gaming, ADL is using around 100 Watts, that's a big improvement and should be celebrated, getting excited about it using 10 watts or so less than AMD's CPU really is not, think about that equivalence, it just means Intel are no longer using absolutely horrendous power draw in gaming, it means they have caught up with AMD, in gaming power draw at least, the CPU that's using the least power whilst gaming is the 5600X, by the same sort of margin some people like to point at when comparing the 12600K to the 5800X.

 

[Game]

To make 12600K + Z690 cost the same as 5800X + B550 I am assume DDR4 ram. We don't know if Raptor Lake or Meteor Lake will support DDR4 at all so there is no guarantee those who buy into the DDR4 Z690 platform will get those future CPUs.

If you go DDR5 with your 12600K you are very close to 5900X + X570 pricing.

At the moment there are good arguments to go either way. With B660 + 12400 and Zen 3d that might change and a certain price point might have an obvious choice but right now at current pricing that is not the case.

to be honest 99% of people who buy a new system dont change it for 4-5 years and never upgrade anything other than the gpu

then buy a new system when its time maybe reusing some old drives if that

the whole platform argument is null and void for most people

 

[OverDrive]

the whole platform argument is null and void for most people

Agreed for the most part. However, many have taken the opportunity of a 'drop in' performance boost on AM4 over the last 5 years.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That slide Dave posted.

Previous generation Intel CPU's 10900K and 11900K using near 200 Watts, ADL is using around 100 Watts, that's a big improvement and should be celebrated, getting excited about it using 10 watts or so less than AMD's CPU really is not, think about that equivalence, it just means Intel are no longer using absolutely horrendous power draw in gaming, it means they have caught up with AMD, in gaming power draw at least, the CPU that's using the least power whilst gaming is the 5600X, by the same sort of margin some people like to point at when comparing the 12600K to the 5800X.

ATM,its more the pricing which is the issue for Zen3 based CPUs. ATM,sure the Z690 isn't great value,but we all know the B650/B660 and cheaper chipsets are also going to appear. The Core i5 12400F looks like it will be a solid CPU if it is $200. That should equate to £180~£200 in the UK. I would say if the Ryzen 5 5600G and the Ryzen 5 5600X can drop to a similar price it would blunt the effect of the Core i5 12400F. After all the Ryzen 5 3600/3600X was around that price too.If AMD can also drop the Ryzen 7 5800X to £300 that would be a good move too IMHO. Again the Ryzen 7 3800X dropped to that pricing level too.

People compare the Core i5 12600KF to the Ryzen 7 5800X as its basically that level performance in non-gaming applications and in-between a Ryzen 5 5600X and Ryzen 7 5800X in games.

 

[thebandit]

Was reading the other day a slightly scare mongering story which suggested that the lower end boards b660 etc might actually throttle ADL in certain performance workloads due to the requirement on the VRMs. If an issue at all would unlikely effect gaming given the lower power draw and may only effect higher SKU's in budget boards but there might be something in it, wait and see.

 

[humbug]

ATM,its more the pricing which is the issue for Zen3 based CPUs. ATM,sure the Z690 isn't great value,but we all know the B650/B660 and cheaper chipsets are also going to appear. The Core i5 12400F looks like it will be a solid CPU if it is $200. That should equate to £180~£200 in the UK.

And that is worth talking about, not a 10 watt power reduction in games vs the 5800X, Intel are not even the most power efficient CPU on that chart and the 10900K / 11900K made Intel look absolutely ridiculous, why would one even post a slide like that it just makes Intel look like a joke when viewed in its full context, "bigger bar = better" well Intel power draw slides certainly were fantastic in that context as those power draw bars are massive.

Lets stick to what is relevant and stop posting silly #### Dave.

Yes, i would like to see the 5800X at $300 with the 5600X at $200, but for that to happen it will depend on sales are right now so far as we can see Ryzen 5000 are still the best sellers. By the time midrange Intel boards come out AMD may be readying Ryzen 6000 so Intel get a move on with those boards.

 

[humbug]

The thing with the cheap i5 CPU's is if you wanted to hurt Intel you would want those to be the best sellers, Intel don't make much money on them and they pull down Intel's already dramatically falling margins.

I'll be amazed if they are still under $200 and plentiful in stock.

 

[humbug]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH

I'll put it this way, i want to see proper competition between AMD and Intel, long term, Intel are still very much bigger and stronger than AMD, while no where near as vulnerable to Intel shenanigans as AMD were even just a year ago they are still vulnerable to it, you know what i'm talking about.

For that reason AMD and Intel are not true competitors, that makes the benefits we get from current competitiveness very very tentative long term.

Intel needs much more weakening, AMD needs much more bulking up.

So, I'm going to run around recommending $170 12400 i5's all over the place.....

Edit: what stops large countries from entering in to a hot war with eachother is assured mutual destruction, AMD doesn't have its own nuclear arsenal, overflowing cash coffers to burn.
Unfortunately, that's how this works.

This is how Intel see it. AMD's stack is now 9X that size but still smaller than Intel throw money around on 'incentives'

 

[Shaz12]

The problem with ADL is the board pricing which is why sales aren’t going well for it. I could have gotten an X570 Strix and a 5900X for essentially the same price as a 12700K and an inferior TUF board which costs more than the x570 strix bizarrely. The only reason I went ADL is because AM4 was a dead end while lga 1700 isn’t for the near term at least.

 

[LePhuronn]

The only reason I went ADL is because AM4 was a dead end while lga 1700 isn’t for the near term at least.

AM4 has a year left, so yes is a dead end. But there's no guarantees 600 series boards will fully support Raptor Lake, if at all.

Yes, Raptor Lake is supposed to have the same dual memory controller so DDR4 will work again, but Raptor Lake is suggested to bump the P cores by 10% and double the E cores. Are existing Z690 boards geared up for even more power draw? What about the budget H and B chiplets? Will mobo vendors cheap out again on 600 series boards forcing customers to purchase a new 700 board if they want Raptor Lake? (I'm looking at you, Asus).

So there's a very real possibility that 600 series boards may also have a year of life, making them just as much a dead end as AM4.

 

[Joxeon]

AM4 has a year left, so yes is a dead end. But there's no guarantees 600 series boards will fully support Raptor Lake, if at all.

Yes, Raptor Lake is supposed to have the same dual memory controller so DDR4 will work again, but Raptor Lake is suggested to bump the P cores by 10% and double the E cores. Are existing Z690 boards geared up for even more power draw? What about the budget H and B chiplets? Will mobo vendors cheap out again on 600 series boards forcing customers to purchase a new 700 board if they want Raptor Lake? (I'm looking at you, Asus).

So there's a very real possibility that 600 series boards may also have a year of life, making them just as much a dead end as AM4.

power draw is really only an issue for the top chip the rest run at more sensible levels.

 

[subbytna]

To be real about it. People change their GPU more than their CPU. People want good GPUs at this moment in time. CPU's are now secondary to GPU "wants" by most people that game.

 

[Game]

Agreed for the most part. However, many have taken the opportunity of a 'drop in' performance boost on AM4 over the last 5 years.

it does happen but not for the majority

 

[humbug]

To be real about it. People change their GPU more than their CPU. People want good GPUs at this moment in time. CPU's are now secondary to GPU "wants" by most people that game.

And with all these "GPU locked" benchmarks floating around what people are seeing is they are all the same "i'll just get a cheap 3600 with cheap board and spend the rest on the GPU" the 3600 is still selling strong, it just doesn't make any sense its not that cheap but it is cheaper than a 5600X and these cheap i5's are deliberately in limited supply.

 

[Game]

To be real about it. People change their GPU more than their CPU. People want good GPUs at this moment in time. CPU's are now secondary to GPU "wants" by most people that game.

there is a large cpu market a lot of people are on older 5-6 year old intel systems which are starting to show their age

 

[Game]

And with all these "GPU locked" benchmarks floating around what people are seeing is they are all the same "i'll just get a cheap 3600 with cheap board and spend the rest on the GPU" the 3600 is still selling strong, it just doesn't make any sense its not that cheap but it is cheaper than a 5600X and these cheap i5's are deliberately in limited supply.

plenty of 10400kf in stock at overclockers still the best part of £80 cheaper than a ryzen 5 3600 and faster