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AMD what you doing to fight off Alderlake?

Game said:
plenty of 10400kf in stock at overclockers still the best part of £80 cheaper than a ryzen 5 3600 and faster
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The 3600 is consistently out selling any of the ##400, often the latter never even appears in the top 12 charts, i have no way of explaining that other than there is not as consistent supply of them as the 3600, can you?
 
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Game said:
plenty of 10400kf in stock at overclockers still the best part of £80 cheaper than a ryzen 5 3600 and faster
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But an AM4 build offers a drop in 3700/3800/3900 or 5xxx at a later date (or potentially the 3d cache versions), an LGA1200 build while technically offering upgrade options is unlikely to get them, as LGA1200 CPUs will be rarer in the second hand market, as AM4 zen2/zen3 have sold better
 
Joxeon said:
power draw is really only an issue for the top chip the rest run at more sensible levels.
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Irrelevant.

The 12900K may be the power hog now, but E core counts double with Raptor Lake. What does that do to the 13700K? The 13600K? Do I only get a single year out of my B660 board because A: it can't handle a 12900K now, and B: it won't handle the 13600K next year?

Like I said, 600 boards could be just as much a dead end as an AM4 board. And given what Asus pulled with their Z490 boards, it really won't surprise me if that proves to be the case in some circumstances.
 
LePhuronn said:
Irrelevant.

The 12900K may be the power hog now, but E core counts double with Raptor Lake. What does that do to the 13700K? The 13600K? Do I only get a single year out of my B660 board because A: it can't handle a 12900K now, and B: it won't handle the 13600K next year?

Like I said, 600 boards could be just as much a dead end as an AM4 board. And given what Asus pulled with their Z490 boards, it really won't surprise me if that proves to be the case in some circumstances.
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The E cores run on much less power which is why Intel is increasing them and not the P cores so TDPs will likely stay the same for the next gen as efficiency improvements offset the extra E cores.

Armageus said:
But an AM4 build offers a drop in 3700/3800/3900 or 5xxx at a later date (or potentially the 3d cache versions), an LGA1200 build while technically offering upgrade options is unlikely to get them, as LGA1200 CPUs will be rarer in the second hand market, as AM4 zen2/zen3 have sold better
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The downside to that is the prices of ryzen will likely remain relatively high as demand for the CPUs will be higher because more people have AM4 boards similarly to how older Intel chips still sell for quite a lot as those platforms were more popular at the time.
 
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LePhuronn said:
Irrelevant.

The 12900K may be the power hog now, but E core counts double with Raptor Lake. What does that do to the 13700K? The 13600K? Do I only get a single year out of my B660 board because A: it can't handle a 12900K now, and B: it won't handle the 13600K next year?

Like I said, 600 boards could be just as much a dead end as an AM4 board. And given what Asus pulled with their Z490 boards, it really won't surprise me if that proves to be the case in some circumstances.
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I really like the 12700K, right now i think its the best CPU and its the one to buy above all others.

But, Intel has a serious scaling problem, AMD moving to LGA takes care of their power constraint problem, which means they can clock the high core count CPU's up, by quite a bit, for example the 5950X from 4Ghz all core high load to 4.6Ghz for 160 Watts or 4.8Ghz all cores for 200 Watts, that's +20%

Add a 20% per core IPC gain, now a 5950X as such is 40% faster at 200 Watts, its on 5nm, add another 8 of those cores for around the same power envelope, maybe a bit more, 220 Watts, now the 7950X is 90% faster than the 5950X, its like two of them.

How many 3.7Ghz 6600K's are Intel going to have to pile on Raptor Lake to beat that? An 8P + 16E isn't going to cut it.

That's desktop, so lets talk about hyper scaling, there are rumours of 256 of those ^^^ cores in AMD's skunk works, how many E cores is that? And are Intel just going to fill half an entire wafer to make them?

Intel cannot scale beyond a few high performance cores, they are just too big and use far too much power, AMD can scale literally hundreds of them.
 
humbug said:
I really like the 12700K, right now i think its the best CPU and its the one to buy above all others.

But, Intel has a serious scaling problem, AMD moving to LGA takes care of their power constraint problem, which means they can clock the high core count CPU's up, by quite a bit, for example the 5950X from 4Ghz all core high load to 4.6Ghz for 160 Watts or 4.8Ghz all cores for 200 Watts, that's +20%

Add a 20% per core IPC gain, now a 5950X as such is 40% faster at 200 Watts, its on 5nm, add another 8 of those cores for around the same power envelope, maybe a bit more, 220 Watts, now the 7950X is 90% faster than the 5950X, its like two of them.

How many 3.7Ghz 6600K's are Intel going to have to pile on Raptor Lake to beat that? An 8P + 16E isn't going to cut it.

That's desktop, so lets talk about hyper scaling, there are rumours of 256 of those ^^^ cores in AMD's skunk works, how many E cores is that? And are Intel just going to fill half an entire wafer to make them?

Intel cannot scale beyond a few high performance cores, they are just too big and use far too much power, AMD can scale literally hundreds of them.
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It's not just the top chip AMD has to beat though, the 12600K + 12700k already have a 40% lead over similarly priced AMD parts in MT performance and the core increases from raptorlake will probably make that a 70% lead so AMD will need to increase core counts lower down the stack aswell if they are to compete.
 
Joxeon said:
It's not just the top chip AMD has to beat though, the 12600K + 12700k already have a 40% lead over similarly priced AMD parts in MT performance and the core increases from raptorlake will probably make that a 70% lead so AMD will need to increase core counts lower down the stack aswell if they are to compete.
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The 5800X vs 12700K, sure, the 5800X has 8 P cores running at 4.6Ghz, the 12700K has 8 P cores running at 4.9Ghz and 4 E cores. 12 core CPU vs an 8 core.

Its not at all surprising the 12700K is a much larger CPU, its more like a 5900X tho its cores are still much smaller than Intel's P cores.

Besides stating the obvious here you haven't addressed anything that i have said.
 
There is something you need to be aware of, i'm surprised you're not.

AMD already has a CPU that is 3X (3 times) as fast as the 5950X with around the same 250 Watts as the 12900K, and its from AMD's last Zen 2 generation.

If Intel aren't looking at that scaling and crapping themselves they are mental.
 
humbug said:
There is something you need to be aware of, i'm surprised you're not.

AMD already has a CPU that is 3X (3 times) as fast as the 5950X with around the same 250 Watts as the 12900K, and its from AMD's last Zen 2 generation.

If Intel aren't looking at that scaling and crapping themselves they are mental.
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A fair assessment. Alder lake isn’t a solution for Intel’s issues.
 
humbug said:
There is something you need to be aware of, i'm surprised you're not.

AMD already has a CPU that is 3X (3 times) as fast as the 5950X with around the same 250 Watts as the 12900K, and its from AMD's last Zen 2 generation.

If Intel aren't looking at that scaling and crapping themselves they are mental.
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I'm amazed so many people in this thread don't get it. Yes, Intel have taken their existing tech and stretched it to the max, maybe even far beyond what it was ever intended to do, but it's not a way forwards, it's a way to keep treading water today.

AMD not only have the ability to simply bolt more chiplets together to make more powerful products, they've done it already in the form of Threadripper, or even EPYC. These products exist now. Does anyone really think that AMD can't continue to improve their chiplets and continue to bolt more and more of them together? They will continue to use the economies of scale and all their products will end up being simply how many chiplets do you want in your CPU.

Alderlake is Intel fighting a battle that they've already lost to AMD. Intel has to think of something new, making the old stuff last a bit longer is not a long term successful strategy. It's not a way to the future. It's a stopgap at best.
 
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humbug said:
The 3600 is consistently out selling any of the ##400, often the latter never even appears in the top 12 charts, i have no way of explaining that other than there is not as consistent supply of them as the 3600, can you?
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Mindshare. Want da bezt? AMD.

It’s because AMD appeal to a wider market than just diy console builders.
 
Steampunk said:
I'm amazed so many people in this thread don't get it. Yes, Intel have taken their existing tech and stretched it to the max, maybe even far beyond what it was ever intended to do, but it's not a way forwards, it's a way to keep treading water today.

AMD not only have the ability to simply bolt more chiplets together to make more powerful products, they've done it already in the form of Threadripper, or even EPYC. These products exist now. Does anyone really think that AMD can't continue to improve their chiplets and continue to bolt more and more of them together? They will continue to use the economies of scale and all their products will end up being simply how many chiplets do you want in your CPU.

Alderlake is Intel fighting a battle that they've already lost to AMD. Intel has to think of something new, making the old stuff last a bit longer is not a long term successful strategy. It's not a way to the future. It's a stopgap at best.
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Stopgaps is all Intel seem to be churning out over the last few years while AMD sit back half trying, not even that, they are half asleep accidentally dropping class leading CPU's everything they take a long yawn.

Intel's mind share is half crushed, If AMD actually tried they could end it once and for all with Zen 4, just do it AMD, set the bar so high it will make Pat 'Leadership' Gelsinger hang himself with the nearest Cat 5 cable.
 
Alderlake is just the start, Meteor Lake / Luna Lake are going to be the real heavy hitters.

3D vCache will help with interim refresh but I can also AMD also going Big.Little,which we may have seen the first signs of the with the introduction of Bergamo.
 
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