AMD what you doing to fight off Alderlake?

[Psycho Sonny]

Only an issue on the top 12900k the rest run pretty reasonably for temps and the non K parts will will use even less when those arrive.

Thanks. I may get one for an itx build I'm thinking of possibly doing.

 

[LePhuronn]

Alderlake is just the start, Meteor Lake / Luna Lake are going to be the real heavy hitters.

3D vCache will help with interim refresh but I can also AMD also going Big.Little,which we may have seen the first signs of the with the introduction of Bergamo.

I think it's worth separating the ARM nomenclature from what Intel is doing. Intel is doing performance and efficiency cores. They don't necessarily have to be "big" or "little" cores, although by virtue of what an "efficiency" core is designed to do, it will be smaller than a "performance" core as we've seen with Alder Lake. Are the leaks for AMD's hybrid approach for Zen 5 even considered a "performance" and "efficiency" hybrid? It almost feels like "focussed" and "wide" design, with a Zen 5 chiplet with fewer cores doing the fast, focussed work, and then a Zen 4 Dense chiplet with a lot more cores aimed at highly threaded "wide" workloads. And it seems that's what Bergamo is, a purely "wide" design cramming 128 Zen 4 Dense cores into the package.

This is what Intel will have to contend with. I have no doubt that Meteor Lake is going to be the true return for Intel, but I still don't see it as a design concept to be anywhere near as flexible and scalable as AMD's chiplet approach. Unless, of course, Intel do their own chiplet/tile implementation with an interconnect that actually works.

 

[LePhuronn]

Yeah lets yeah let's all hope Intel go bust so we can have an AMD monopoly and CPUs with an extra 5% performance released every year for 20% higher costs.

Oh grow up, that's not what humbug said and you know it.

 

[KompuKare]

Has anyone done a proper analysis of ADL's performance cores vs Zen3 cores?
Did a quick calculation of ADL using this Reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qhbbow/10nm_esf_intel_7_alder_lake_die_shot/:

and some calculation (based on the 24MP version, but that didn't have all the annotations).


So at least the E-cores at @ 1.92mm² are nearly a quarter of the size of the P-cores @ 7.36mm².

How that compares to Zen 3 (and for that matter M1 Max) is a more interesting question.

That is, who's design is the most efficient at performance per transistors?

 

[Destination]

It'll be the ARM M1 for apple, as its on a much smaller process I'd have thought.

 

[jigger]

Intel needs time to work on Nova lake, it's not ready anyway - looks like Intel still has to launch 13th, 14th and 15th gen - unless they skip some of these


Nova Lake, built on Intel 3:

"In 2025 we have Nova Lake CPUs which brings forth a brand new ground up architecture known as Panther Cove and Darkmont to the table. It is rumored to be the biggest architectural up lift in Intel's history, even bigger than the Core architecture itself which was introduced all the way back in 2006. The CPU performance improvement is targeting 50%+ IPC over 2024's 15th Gen chips"

Intel need to get past its nonsense nodes and designs and hope AMD aren’t too far ahead.

 

[jigger]

Murder Nvidia with their abysmal driver support and RTX 3070 class performance when it’s about to go EOL? Not happening.

It’s Nvidia Joxen should be concern about. Intel win by default.

 

[SKILL]

Has anyone done a proper analysis of ADL's performance cores vs Zen3 cores?
Did a quick calculation of ADL using this Reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qhbbow/10nm_esf_intel_7_alder_lake_die_shot/:

and some calculation (based on the 24MP version, but that didn't have all the annotations).


So at least the E-cores at @ 1.92mm² are nearly a quarter of the size of the P-cores @ 7.36mm².

How that compares to Zen 3 (and for that matter M1 Max) is a more interesting question.

That is, who's design is the most efficient at performance per transistors?

Interesting question, not gone into the detail you have but a quick google/look around gives a total die size for a Zen3 chiplet of ~80mm2 and looking at the annotated die shot from here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jqjg8e/quick_zen3_die_shot_annotations_die_shot_from/

The actual cores themselves are less than half of the die area, so if my brain is working that's <5mm2 per core. So between the roughly in the middle of the Intel P and E cores, but performance is closer to the P cores.

Although it's quite likely you could design a core the same size as the E cores but give better performance if you wanted to, I'd imagine the Intel engineers made deliberate decisions for efficiency that would hurt performance, even just layout of the same transistor/logic blocks can affect that.

 

[jigger]

Has anyone done a proper analysis of ADL's performance cores vs Zen3 cores?
Did a quick calculation of ADL using this Reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qhbbow/10nm_esf_intel_7_alder_lake_die_shot/:

and some calculation (based on the 24MP version, but that didn't have all the annotations).


So at least the E-cores at @ 1.92mm² are nearly a quarter of the size of the P-cores @ 7.36mm².

How that compares to Zen 3 (and for that matter M1 Max) is a more interesting question.

That is, who's design is the most efficient at performance per transistors?

Intel’s designs are way too big to win the density fight, hence the big-little hack. But 10nm is a pretty solid node for low power. The T parts and 6+6+2 Alder lake/Raptor chips could be half decent.

 

[jigger]

With just how little you know, I'm fine with you having an opinion like that

I know a little less today. Would you like to know a little less too?

 

[jigger]

Murder Nvidia with their abysmal driver support and RTX 3070 class performance when it’s about to go EOL? Not happening.

It’s happening!

Inserts it’s happening gif.

 

[Raelgun]

Think it's great to see actual good products from both camps but cost is out of proportion as a package, the cheapest ram kit cost more then some of the cpus skus right now. The motherboard all have a high starting price.

Just need a whole cheaper package and it be great.

 

[jigger]

Think it's great to see actual good products from both camps but cost is out of proportion as a package, the cheapest ram kit cost more then some of the cpus skus right now. The motherboard all have a high starting price.

Just need a whole cheaper package and it be great.

It is. Intel have managed to produce a chip that improves over the last gen.

We could talk about how it’s taken 5 years, the timing of the launch and point out the weaknesses. But Intel deserves credit for taking what was essentially two piles of garbage and whipping them into shape.

 

[humbug]

Has anyone done a proper analysis of ADL's performance cores vs Zen3 cores?
Did a quick calculation of ADL using this Reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qhbbow/10nm_esf_intel_7_alder_lake_die_shot/:

and some calculation (based on the 24MP version, but that didn't have all the annotations).


So at least the E-cores at @ 1.92mm² are nearly a quarter of the size of the P-cores @ 7.36mm².

How that compares to Zen 3 (and for that matter M1 Max) is a more interesting question.

That is, who's design is the most efficient at performance per transistors?

Same sort of thing with Zen 3, these are not exacting but i think thy are close enough. https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/jtnvry/rough_comparison_of_structure_sizes_between_amd/

Zen 3 cores without the L2: 3.24mm.
With L2 they are 4.04mm

 

[turbot1984]

AMD prices were lower a couple of months ago, what's going on?

 

[humbug]

AMD prices were lower a couple of months ago, what's going on?

I don't know but they still seem to be selling well, they are still all over the sales charts.

Hardware Unboxed said retailers told him ADL sales are steady but no where near as high as they expected, one said they sold more Ryzen 5000 CPU's in hours than ADL sold in days.

The reason for that is probably a combination of things and not least of them the apparent marketing team up with Microsoft and Windows 11, like MS was expecting a higher Windows 11 adoption through a marketing team up with Intel, what its actually done is hamper Intel's sales.
I love it when stuff like that backfires.

 

[turbot1984]

I don't know but they still seem to be selling well, they are still all over the sales charts.

Hardware Unboxed said retailers told him ADL sales are steady but no where near as high as they expected, one said they sold more Ryzen 5000 CPU's in hours than ADL sold in days.

The reason for that is probably a combination of things and not least of them the apparent marketing team up with Microsoft and Windows 11, like MS was expecting a higher Windows 11 adoption through a marketing team up with Intel, what its actually done is hamper Intel's sales.
I love it when stuff like that backfires.

all very confusing ... has your AMD not exploded at 5ghz yet ?

 

[humbug]

all very confusing ... has your AMD not exploded at 5ghz yet ?

No, its fine.

I think ADL would do much better if it was not so tied to Windows 11 in the marketing and with it peoples minds.

 

[cliffy]

No, its fine.

I think ADL would do much better if it was not so tied to Windows 11 in the marketing and with it peoples minds.

This all day. I suspect also that a lot of the 5000 series purchases are for people upgrading existing AM4 CPU's. Platform cost is probably also a factor

 

[Grim5]

No, its fine.

I think ADL would do much better if it was not so tied to Windows 11 in the marketing and with it peoples minds.

it's Microsoft's fault too, they've actually stated they will be working to fix W11 issues for Alder Lake first before they even touch W10 - another case of Microsoft taking advantage of the situation to push W11 adoption