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AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

andy_mk3 said:
I haven't don a ton of gaming on my 3900x, but coming from a very old 2600k, GTA V blew me away last night. All sliders maxed out, getting a very solid 80-100fps, no dips, it was just butter smooth. Even though my fps was previously quite high, the smoothness of it just changes everything.
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This is the difference between 4 cores and 8MB of L3 to 6+ and 32MB+ or in your case i think its 60MB of L3, Ryzen is so much more CPU so it's much easier for it to handle the same workload = smoother.

My 4690K was a little faster in one or two games but never did it feel anything like as nice as the 1600. Numbers on a graph are just numbers, they don't tell the whole story, it's that responsiveness and silky game play that really matters.
 
willhub said:
Why are people saying the 3800x is going to perform like 3900x it's just a 3700x with 100mhz extra?
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A few things on this;

The 3800X should better than the 3700X due to "better silicon" but more so the default power limitations. The new boosting algorithm will go as high in frequencies as it can go within its constraints, no matter the amount of CPU cores.

The constraints are as follows:
  • Package Power Tracking (PPT): The power threshold that is allowed to be delivered to the socket.
    • This is 88W for 65W TDP processors, and 142W for 105W TDP processors.
  • Thermal Design Current (TDC): The maximum amount of current delivered by the motherboard’s voltage regulators when under thermally constrained scenarios (high temperatures)
    • This is 60A for 65W TDP processors, and 95A for 105W TDP processors.
  • Electrical Design Current (EDC): This is the maximum amount of current at any instantaneous short period of time that can be delivered by the motherboard’s voltage regulators.
    • This is 90A for 65W TDP processors, and 140A for 105W TDP processors.
i.e. the higher the TDP of the processor, the bigger the power package available by default. Though worth noting that board manufacturers will likely have a work around to the constraints.
These chips are clocked so high by default that further frequency improvements via the "Auto OC" feature are disallowed by the silicon fitness monitoring feature (FIT), due to the required voltage for higher frequencies being too high. So it'll be down to working around this to get more out of the chips. But really, it doesn't seem worth it.

The Stilt said:
Increasing the PBO limits (PPT, TDC & EDC) will increase them as far as FIT (voltage) will allow. Practically that means around 100MHz higher clocks (4.075GHz).

PBO does nothing to the single core clocks, since single core workloads are not limited by PPT, TDC or EDC.
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The 3900X has a higher power package than the 3700x, obviously. However, more importantly the power package is split over two CCDs, spreading the heat. So whilst I think the 3800X will be better than the 3700X, I don't think it's going to perform as well as the 3900X, before you even take into account differences in cache.

Apart from maybe memory overclocking, this (in theory) will be better on a single CCD chip as 2 CCD parts (3900X and 3950X) should be more picky about FCLK, due to discrepancies in the CCD signalling as typically one CCD will prefer lower voltage than the other.

If the 3800X shows to on-par or better than the 3900X, then I think it would be safe to say that they are very much well binned and would expect the 3950X to be killer.
 
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andy_mk3 said:
I haven't don a ton of gaming on my 3900x, but coming from a very old 2600k, GTA V blew me away last night. All sliders maxed out, getting a very solid 80-100fps, no dips, it was just butter smooth. Even though my fps was previously quite high, the smoothness of it just changes everything.
Click to expand...

When I moved to the 1800X from my 3930K (over 2 years ago now, wow), I noticed immediately a better experience in gaming. Whilst the extra frames weren't a huge game changer, it was much smoother in comparison.
 
Rossi~ said:
When I moved to the 1800X from my 3930K (over 2 years ago now, wow), I noticed immediately a better experience in gaming. Whilst the extra frames weren't a huge game changer, it was much smoother in comparison.
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exactly the upgrade path i went, the 1800x was amazing compared the 3930k i had. I totally agree with it feeling so much smoother.

I play at 4k now so i don't really need to upgrade but im getting the itch :D
 
labbby said:
exactly the upgrade path i went, the 1800x was amazing compared the 3930k i had. I totally agree with it feeling so much smoother.

I play at 4k now so i don't really need to upgrade but im getting the itch :D
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i went from a 4770k to a R7 1700, while my single threaded perf didnt really improve massively, maybe 2-3%? the overall smoothness of gaming increased dramatically, the 4770k was choking when raiding in WoW with Chrome + 10 tabs open, and Youtube, Discord etc, the 1700 just doesnt even moan about it, its a stellar cpu in comparison.
 
labbby said:
exactly the upgrade path i went, the 1800x was amazing compared the 3930k i had. I totally agree with it feeling so much smoother.

I play at 4k now so i don't really need to upgrade but im getting the itch :D
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Interesting.. what is the smoothness attributed to in your opinion ? Just the extra cores or something to do with Ryzen specifically?
 
Potatowithearsontheside said:
They can take up to 8 weeks to deliver, and a bunch of other time-bound stuff, plus all must be done by 26/08/2019.
Sounds like a lot of faffing about.
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It took me about half an hour all told - they need the invoice and a photo of the serial number from the 24-pin connector. Still waiting for my 3800x (hint hint Gibbo), so mine was still in the box...
 
I really don't think I need a fancy motherboard and want a 3700x
Equally, I don't think I can really be bothered going through the if's and but's of getting a B450/X470
What am a loosing out on over a more expensive board by going in at < £200 for a X570 and which one would you choose?
I asked quite a few pages back so forgive the repeat but some of you have more experience now
 
ArchAnGeL said:
I really don't think I need a fancy motherboard and want a 3700x
Equally, I don't think I can really be bothered going through the if's and but's of getting a B450/X470
What am a loosing out on over a more expensive board by going in at < £200 for a X570 and which one would you choose?
I asked quite a few pages back so forgive the repeat but some of you have more experience now
Click to expand...

I think the question to ask is . . .

Which X570 that is less than £200 is best for an 8 core?

Remember, even a B350 can handle an 8 core. We saw a few use a 12 core. Not recommended, though.
 
So reading this earlier re Ryzen 3000 constantly running high clock speeds / voltages.

The basic premise is if you are on Ryzen 2000 or 1000 use Windows Balanced power plan, if you are on Ryzen 3000 use Ryzen balanced.... but the Ryzen balanced with the latest chipset drivers.
Also some monitoring software bad , bar Ryzen Master. But doesnt go into examples of which may or may not be causing issues.

Im using Hwinfo with 2700x but may upgrade still to 3900x, but couldnt live without HwInfo.

Ryzen Master may be the best for having a look , but it doesnt have all the vast array of display options like Hwinfo.
I.e. i also output the details to tray / overlay when gaming via RTSS ... inc other stuff like temps, fan speeds, GPU temps , clocks etc.

In the below it says the problem is when programs run say every 200ms or less, for 20ms which is interpreted as workload and clocks rise.

Hwinfo runs every 2000ms and can be configured to poll slower ... but does it hang onto cpu for 20ms or more and thus still cause Ryzen 3000 to clock up ..

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g/the_final_word_on_idle_voltages_for_3rd_gen_ryzen/


Hi, everyone. I've spoken to many of you publicly or privately over the past 48H to better understand why you are seeing idle voltages the community considers to be high. Some of the back-and-forth was covered in this thread, but I wanted to submit my own post to bring more visibility to this topic. We have a final answer for you.

Understanding What's Going On

We have determined that many popular monitoring tools are quite aggressive in how they monitor the behavior of a core. Some of them wake every core in the system for 20ms, and do this as often as every 200ms. From the perspective of the processor firmware, this is interpreted as a workload that's asking for sustained performance from the core(s). The firmware is designed to respond to such a pattern by boosting: higher clocks, higher voltages.

The Effect of This Pattern

So, if you're sitting there staring at your monitoring tool, the tool is constantly instructing all the cores to wake up and boost. This will keep the clockspeeds high, and the corresponding voltages will be elevated to support that boost. This is a classic case of observer effect: you're expecting the tool to give valid data, but it's actually producing invalid data by virtue of how it's measuring.

What about Ryzen Balanced vs. Windows Balanced Plan?

By now, you may know that 3rd Gen Ryzen heralds the return of the Ryzen Balanced power plan (only for 3rd Gen CPUs; everyone else can use the regular ol' Windows plan). This plan specifically enables the 1ms clock selection we've been promoting as a result of CPPC2. This allows the CPU to respond more quickly to workloads, especially bursty workloads, which improves performance for you. In contrast, the default "Balanced" plan that comes with Windows is configured to a 15ms clock selection interval.

Some have noticed that switching to the Windows Balanced plan, instead of the Ryzen Balanced Plan, causes idle voltages to settle. This is because the default Balanced Plan, with 15ms intervals, comparatively instructs the processor to ignore 14 of 15 clock requests relative to the AMD plan.

So, if the monitoring tool is sitting there hammering the cores with boost requests, the default plan is just going to discard most of them. The core frequency and clock will settle to true idle values now and then. But if you run our performance-enhancing plan, the CPU is going to act on every single boost request interpreted from the monitoring tool. Voltages and clock, therefore, will go up. Observer effect in action!

Okay, Rob. Shhhhh. Just Tell Me How I See Voltages? I Just Wanna Check!

CPU-Z does an excellent job of showing you the current/true idle core voltage without observer effect. In my example image, I've configured a Ryzen 9 3900X with all the same things we would advise the public to use: Windows 10 May 2019 Update, the latest BIOS for the Crosshair VIII, and chipset driver 1.07.07 (incl. the AMD power plan). Yes, we're monitoring the behavior of the core, but we can see that idle voltage looks great. The tool is not compelling the firmware to boost when it's not needed.

Is There Anything Else I Need To Know?

Yes, actually. The Ryzen CPU depends heavily on a low-power state called cc6 sleep. In this sleep state, core clockspeeds and voltages are basically nil as the core is sleeping and gated. It is not possible to report out the state of the core in this sleep state without waking the core, probing the status, and killing the power savings of cc6. Therefore, MOST tools can only show you the last clock and voltage of the core before the core went to cc6. So if you were at full 4.5GHz+ boost @ 1.48V, then the core went to sleep, many tools might show the core(s) stuck at that value. The tool just doesn't know any better.

However, the latest version of AMD Ryzen Master can uniquely show you clocks and voltages in a cc6 state. No other tool can do it. Neat piece of info for the people looking to understand how their core behaves!

tl;dr: Observer effect bad. You can't always trust your tools. CPU-Z gives you the right idle voltage. We'll look at the rest. Thank you everyone for your reports and insight, which helped us get to the bottom of this once and for all.
 
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