AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

[Yaayuh!]

Mobo prices are actually insane. £100's of pounds more, Double the price of previous gen in some instances!!
But we are told they have a thicker PCB so it's OK. How much does 1 gram more of copper and 40ml of fibreglass resin cost? 10p i'll bet.

Yes there's going to be price hike outside of manufacturing costs but there's a lot more involved and you know it, manufacturing process changes and testing alone would bump pricing.

 

[Zeed]

C6H was sound buy then, even with 2xxx it was solid for me. If I was honest I have my eye on a C6H I plan to buy around 15/16th of this month. I plan to buy open box, so should come in ~£100 if what I hope occurs and it's still there to buy.

I plan to test with 3xxx and then compare same CPU on C7H. I'm hoping like when I did this same test with 2700X I have same CPU MHz and performance. Plus that the T-Topology allows for tuning room on 4 dimms vs the daisy chain. When I mean tuning not that I saw difference on RAM MHz/timings, but I had more "manoeuvrability" on settings like ProcODT, RTT, CAD Bus. The C7H daisy chain didn't allow many changes to these settings without throwing a spat when on 4 dimms.

One reason besides others I wanna get the 3xxx, it has a menu which has not been shown on 1xxx/2xxx on AM4, but is on Threadripper. PMU Training menu aka IMC, link.

As long as C6H has all the menus I want and performs as I expect, I plan on selling off the C7H.

Why sell C7H and keep C6H ??? You know I have much better experience with C7H Cause

Everything Just works Anyhow we are still on 2304 bios with ComboPI 0.0.7.2A from MAY there been 3 new versions of microcode since.... God damn it..

 

[humbug]

Considering AMD needs to have the PCI-E on the CPU that seems unlikely

Good point.

 

[chrcoluk]

that's the gaming X lol. which is £400+ (assuming $ to £ of 1:1)

shocking, I built an entire ryzen 2 rig including 16gig of ram for the price of that board.

 

[Zeed]

Any requests for benchmarks I should do with my fully-patched, fully-microcode-updated, fully-mitigation-enabled X5675 and then re-do on Ryzen 3?

So far on my list to do:
- x265
- Cinebench R20
- Boot time (46s, lol)
- Far Cry 5 benchmark
- Overwatch frame time analysis (if I can get it consistent)

Ill do my standard
Cinebench Trilogy 11.5 15 20 still got my Phenom X3 scores
IBT x10 very high pass time
Ill record some footage make project in Cyberlink Power director and check render times 2700x vs 3900x
and rest iof benchmarks I got installed

 

[Journey]

Everything Just works Anyhow we are still on 23004 bios with ComboPI 0.0.7.2A from MAY there been 3 new versions of microcode since.... God damn it..

I guess that Asus tax doesn't include timely BIOS updates, even MSI have got Combo 1.0.0.3 out for B450/X470 and even some B350/X370 boards.

 

[Jokester]

Unless they wanted just PCIe4 to the chipset without the expense of having GPU compatible slots as well.

But is the chipset that much of an upgrade over just a X470 board?, which GPU slot may work at 4.0 speeds regardless. I can see why MB makers pushed back against it. If anything I can see new X470 boards coming out specifically for Ryzen 3000.

 

[IT Troll]

I've not looked at any data but logically shouldn't that be the other way around, as you go up in resolution aren't you sending less data to the GPU.

Ultimately it is the amount of scene data per frame that the GPU requires to produce the output. Higher FPS and higher complexity (inc. textures) increase the bandwidth demand.

In order to saturate the PCIe lanes, there should be very intense transfer of data between ther CPU, the GPU and the memory. If the CPU can't manage to send big packets of data to the GPU and vise versa, the bus won't ever be the limitting factor. The bottleneck is not in its bandwidth.

Ever is a long time and it does depends on the bandwidth. If you run a 2080Ti on x4 3.0 you lose about 6%, whilst with x4 2.0 you lose about 14%. However, the testing indicates that it will be a long time before x16 3.0 becomes a limiting factor. Not now, not tomorrow, but not ever.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3366-nvlink-benchmark-rtx-2080-ti-pcie-bandwidth-x16-vs-x8
Seems to conclude around 1% benefit of x16 in SLI except for Ashes which forces all data through PCI ignoring NVlink and so takes ~15% dive.

Testing with a single 2080Ti shows the same 1%, which is undetectable or within the margin of error.

 

[Kashinoda]

AMD Zen 2 is faster, cheaper, more efficient, runs cooler, more secure and you get a cooler, who is buying Intel after zen 2 hits?

Except the 9900k may well be faster depending on your use case and will be significantly less fussy with memory and not need an expensive motherboard to get the most out of it.

Plenty of reasons to stick with Intel.

 

[Zeed]

I guess that Asus tax doesn't include timely BIOS updates, even MSI have got Combo 1.0.0.3 out for B450/X470 and even some B350/X370 boards.

I know that's why its my Last Asus motherboard. On the good side this bios got PCIE 4.0 still in it.

 

[SiDeards73]

Any requests for benchmarks I should do with my fully-patched, fully-microcode-updated, fully-mitigation-enabled X5675 and then re-do on Ryzen 3?

So far on my list to do:
- x265
- Cinebench R20
- Boot time (46s, lol)
- Far Cry 5 benchmark
- Overwatch frame time analysis (if I can get it consistent)

My tests will be
- Cinebench R15
- Cinebench R20
- Boot Time (will check this tonight)
- Division 2 Benchmark in DX12
- Will check what other games i have installed with Benchmark

Will be comparing CH6 + 3600mhz C16 run at 3200mhz ram with loose timings + 1700 against either the 3800X or 3900X, whichever is the better gaming chip dependant on reviews I will of course be running the Ram at its rated 3600mhz C16 speed if i can, rather than the 3200mhz im limited to currently on my 1700.

 

[humbug]

Unless they wanted just PCIe4 to the chipset without the expense of having GPU compatible slots as well.

But is the chipset that much of an upgrade over just a X470 board?, which GPU slot may work at 4.0 speeds regardless. I can see why MB makers pushed back against it. If anything I can see new X470 boards coming out specifically for Ryzen 3000.

I'll be interested to see how B550 does it.

It's a shame and IMO daft that B550 aren't arriving before the end of the year, the vast majority of Ryzen 3000 buyers will be made up of 3600/X/3700X and they are not comfortable paying upwards of £150 for what will be bare-bone Boards in that range.

 

[Curlyriff]

Mobo prices are actually insane. £100's of pounds more, Double the price of previous gen in some instances!!
But we are told they have a thicker PCB so it's OK. How much does 1 gram more of copper and 40ml of fibreglass resin cost? 10p i'll bet.

See my info above, it might not even be copper. If it is not then the cost of MEGTRON can cost 1.2 to 2.5 times more than FR4 copper. So it depends, more cost plus 50% more of the product plus the expense of production could add up.

As I mentioned, not sure if they have already moved to MEGTRON yet. Also with that costs to produce for thicker PCB is higher in that it does not correlate that say 1 layer PCB is £5, 2 layers is £10 etc. It changes and goes up exponentially so 1 layer PCB £5, 2 layer £15, 3 layer £25 etc. Ignore figures, just premise on example.

So you can't just say it adds X amount purely cause of material either. The machines used, the R&D to get everything working through the higher layer counts etc.

Everything does add up and it is surprising. I mean I am still not sure it should be double the price but I would have certainly understood 50% increase on previous models overall.

 

[SiDeards73]

Except the 9900k may well be faster depending on your use case and will be significantly less fussy with memory and not need an expensive motherboard to get the most out of it.

Plenty of reasons to stick with Intel.

oh lord stop being a fangirl, its getting boring...

9900k is going to be faster single core, who cares, its going to marginal 5% or so at best and 9900k will get decimated in anything multicore, Zen2 has already been said to be a lot less fussy with Memory, look at what 8pack has been saying in this very thread.

And as for boards, yes x570 is expensive however you can use X370, B350, X470, B450 boards with Zen 2 as well, so no, you cannot use "Motherboards are expensive" as an excuse.

Less drivel ok?

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

Mobo prices are actually insane. £100's of pounds more, Double the price of previous gen in some instances!!
But we are told they have a thicker PCB so it's OK. How much does 1 gram more of copper and 40ml of fibreglass resin cost? 10p i'll bet.

Are they actually a thicker PCB though? Someone above posted that they are generally all 6 layer and the high end being 8 (guessing 10+ for the silly price tiers). The ASRock Taichi I have you can pickup for £180 and is 8 layer... so I'd expect performance of whatever CPU I drop in to be close to within margin of error with even the top end x570.

 

[Curlyriff]

Agreed, as i said before 4.4Ghz might be the all core max, on the higher end SKUs it's probably better to leave them alone on PBO given they boost up to 4.7Ghz on one or two cores?

Yep I would think so and I think we are already seeing those results in the benches shown so when it starts getting compared to the 5.0Ghz i9 9900k or KS later then there will be around 5-10% drop in AMD compared as we are already at max without very high end water cooling.

 

[robfosters]

MEGTRON sounds like a Transformer.

 

[kitfit1]

C6H was sound buy then, even with 2xxx it was solid for me. If I was honest I have my eye on a C6H I plan to buy around 15/16th of this month. I plan to buy open box, so should come in ~£100 if what I hope occurs and it's still there to buy.

I plan to test with 3xxx and then compare same CPU on C7H. I'm hoping like when I did this same test with 2700X I have same CPU MHz and performance. Plus that the T-Topology allows for tuning room on 4 dimms vs the daisy chain. When I mean tuning not that I saw difference on RAM MHz/timings, but I had more "manoeuvrability" on settings like ProcODT, RTT, CAD Bus. The C7H daisy chain didn't allow many changes to these settings without throwing a spat when on 4 dimms.

One reason besides others I wanna get the 3xxx, it has a menu which has not been shown on 1xxx/2xxx on AM4, but is on Threadripper. PMU Training menu aka IMC, link.

As long as C6H has all the menus I want and performs as I expect, I plan on selling off the C7H.

As i mentioned ages ago in this thread, i fully intend to keep my CH6 because it is just a very flexible mobo bios wise. But i also intend to pair it with a 3950x, so have until September to read and digest what others are saying about all the different mobo combinations paired with this Sundays CPU launch. If it becomes obvious that x570 is the best route, then i will take it. But if there is not much difference, or x570 is the same i can see me keeping the CH6 until it becomes completely obsolete.

 

[SiDeards73]

Are they actually a thicker PCB though? Someone above posted that they are generally all 6 layer and the high end being 8 (guessing 10+ for the silly price tiers). The ASRock Taichi I have you can pickup for £180 and is 8 layer... so I'd expect performance of whatever CPU I drop in to be close to within margin of error with even the top end x570.

Id imagine a lot of the cost can be also attributed to the amount of metal they have added to the heatsinks, the onboard fan, the metal backplate, the shrouds covering all the NVME drives etc etc.

 

[Orange Nexus]

Except the 9900k may well be faster depending on your use case and will be significantly less fussy with memory and not need an expensive motherboard to get the most out of it.

Plenty of reasons to stick with Intel.

Not anymore. According to 8 Pack, 3600 MHz is easy using all 4 slots. For 2 slots, over 4000 MHz is possible. Of course, using the RAM with speeds closest to those specs.

And for motherboard, for the 6 cores, even B350 will work fine. So, if you'll consider Intel, then PCIe 4 is not really in the item of choices. AMD build will still be cheaper and more secure.