Took them long enough
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*** AMD "Zen 4" thread (inc AM5/APU discussion) ***
I believe it is being revealed at CES 23 which is in January. Release date though is anyone's guess. My head canon is if they priced AM5 like they did to milk early adopters, because the 3D chip is so far ahead of the other 2x SKUS that they know people will want to jump on board, this will coincide with a price drop
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Associate
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2017
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It has more cores so yeah it is going to be better in most if not all MT applications but are people actually using them for that? The 7600x is £60 cheaper than the 13600k, doesn't thermal throttle on a 360AIO, has tit for tat gaming performance with the 13600k. 13600K is on a dead platform so no upgrading after this. The 7600K isn't annihilated but that is the usual crap from HUB.
Caporegime
I agreed to a degree,but the reality I remember the Athlon 64 era,and AMD can utterly be like Intel WRT to pricing and market segmentation. But then AMD overegged it,and Intel started creeping closer and closer. Then came the Core(laptop) and then the Core2. They have a history of getting slightly complacent,and you can't do that with juggernauts like Intel and Nvidia. Once Intel starts closing the process node advantage and moves to their own chiplets,things might swing the other way.
I think last generation has far more bargains to be had,especially if you don't need top level performance. But there are current generation CPUs over £300 people might want to buy and this is where the Core i5 13600K/13600KF becomes interesting.
The reality is that the Core i5 13600KF is basically a Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X competitor. People trying to ignore what the E-cores are doing are being disgenuous as AMD is going to do the same:
AMD Is Working on Its Own Hybrid x86 CPU: Patent Filing
New patent applications suggest AMD is working on a hybrid processor of its own, even if it isn't talking about it yet.
www.extremetech.com
Whereas,I do see the merits of going last generation there are also those who I know who do image editing/video work too(and game). The Core i5 13600K/Core i5 13600KF offer a lot of performance in a range of image editing,video encoding and rendering benchmarks. I know someone who has a pre AM4 system,and looked at the Ryzen 5 7600X,Ryzen 7 7700X and Core i5 13600K/Core i5 13600KF. They also had decent B-die DDR4. They game/stream and do some image editing/video work too. They are getting the Core i5. It fits their workloads perfectly,at a semi-reasonable price and they can re-use their decent DDR4.
If you look at the Puget Systems detailed benchmarks,and a few others in popular video encoders and image processing software,on average the Core i5 13600K/Core i5 13600KF is batting way above its price point. You are looking at Ryzen 7 7700X/Ryzen 9 5900X or sometimes better performance. Sometimes closing in on a Ryzen 9 5950X. These are all well over £400.Plus tuned DDR4 won't impact performance too much from what I see(especially compared to the Core i9 13900K).
Decent AM4 motherboards have gone up in price. Compared to the summer I am seeing price increases of £30~£40 on some decent models, with some getting closer to £150(they used to be closer to £100).Some have disappeared including some MSI ones I used to recommend. Even if you get a Ryzen 9 5900X and one of those motherboards it's closer to £700 with 32GB of 3600CL16 DDR4.
For about £600ish(with 32GB of DDR4 and a decent B660 motherboard) you are getting a really good productivity CPU in the Core i5 13600KF,and it also runs games fairly well. Certainly if you are running more mainstream dGPUs,its going to be fine for a while. Not everyone just games on CPUs - we also do other stuff too. I went onto AM4 not because of gaming performance only but productivity performance too. But these price rises on the AMD six cores CPUs are not filling me with confidence. At least Intel is adding Skylake level meme cores.
But again I reiterate,plenty of great value last generation products to be had too as you mentioned.
This release should force AMD to drop prices. The Ryzen 5 7600X is already more expensive per core than a Ryzen 9! It should be £290 going by OcUK Ryzen 9 pricing!
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I mean, the 12 game average result looks good for the 7700X.
If you don't wanna go AMD, why not just get a 13700/13700f instead?
I suspect AMD doesn't need to lower prices, they most likely aren't producing enough to need to do that.
I do not understand the insistence on buying K CPUs, unless maybe buying 2nd hand... I don't believe it's worth it.
It's actually bad for the market all around, if people keep paying higher prices for a marginally better product (K CPUs).
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I just dislike the design. I'm happy to wait for when more high performance cores become available (at cheaper prices, hopefully as a monolithic design). Or, maybe we'll see a some nice improvements even with 8 performance cores on Zen 5 and Meteor Lake.The reality is that the Core i5 13600KF is basically a Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X competitor. People trying to ignore what the E-cores are doing are being disgenuous as AMD is going to do the same:
AMD Is Working on Its Own Hybrid x86 CPU: Patent Filing
New patent applications suggest AMD is working on a hybrid processor of its own, even if it isn't talking about it yet.
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Caporegime
AMD could have not given Intel a win,by pricing the Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 CPUs better. Its kind of daft you pay more per core with them. So at Ryzen 9 pricing on OcUK,a Ryzen 5 7600X would be £290 and a Ryzen 7 7700X would be £385 if the per core price was the same - even that would have changed the perception a bit. A £350 Ryzen 7 7700X and a £260 Ryzen 5 7600X,would have given Intel no room to move at all,and probably stimulated more interest in AM5.
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Soldato
AMD will price cut, they will have to stimulate sales somehow.
Why? they can just produce less if needed.
Instead, I think they will release separate cheaper models a bit later, which is obviously better for customers.
This is exactly what happened with Zen 3.
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Soldato
They aint selling that's why. What's the point of releasing cheaper skews and the expensive stuff sitting on shelves.
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You just produce less of these, more of the cheaper models when capacity /production capability allows.
I think this is exactly what Intel does with non K CPUs...
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Soldato
Their next quarter is going to be a stinker. They will price cut like they did when Intel was trouncing them, like they are now.
It's easy, just release non 'X' CPUs and produce and sell in greater quantities (Q1 2023?). More B650 boards are coming by December also (cheaper Asus boards).
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Well 13600KF is going for £350 atm. 7600X is £320. Both 6 performance cores.
Are you counting the E-cores? Sure, they can be helpful, but I'd rather just have cheaper a version without, like the 12600.
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Caporegime
They cost more per core than Ryzen 9 CPUs. The Ryzen 7 7700X should be £385. AMD gave Intel an opening. They did it with the Core i5 12600K,which basically outperformed the Ryzen 5 5600X,and the Core i5 12400F which forced AMD to release a Ryzen 5 5600 non-X.
The E-cores add a lot of performance in non-gaming applications,and things like game streaming/recording,video capture,etc:
OcUK Intel Raptor Lake review thread
Because you can use 8000 ddr5 ram on the Intel, and you can't on AMD? With 3D memory of CPUs and Direct Storage on GPUs, next year is the year RAM goes to die doesn't have any affect on gaming anymore
forums.overclockers.co.uk
The pure six core CPUs fall apart when you stream/record,and a lot of people know do it. As much performance(or even more) than a Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X in popular image editing,video encoding and rendering applications. All well over £400.
Ultimately for a £300+ CPU I would expect it to be good in doing lots of things,not just running games TBH. It's even worse in the US where the Ryzen 5 and Core i5 cost basically the same in USD. The Ryzen 5 7600X seems like a one trick pony,and AMD got complacent.
Intel is rebranding the Core i5 12600K as the Core i5 13400,so basically that will be fighting the Ryzen 5 5600X and Ryzen 7 5700X. If AMD had priced the Ryzen 5 7600X properly,it wouldn't be fighting the Core i5 13600KF,it would be fighting a Core i5 13500 or Core i5 13600 which are ADL.
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Cheaper '7600' non X is all that's needed on AMD's side.
+ '7700' non X.
Then premium X3D chips.
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Caporegime
They just need to stop playing silly games. The Ryzen 5 7600X should have been under £300 and the Ryzen 7 7700X well under £400. Even Steve from HUB said the Ryzen 5 7600X need a decent price cut,as did Steve from Gamersnexus. From what I gather the Ryzen 9 CPUs are the Zen4 CPUs which are selling,and this Core i5 seems to have garnered far more interest even from mates who are on AMD systems now. Its just a more interesting CPU. AMD try to jebait too much and get jebaited themselves,by both Intel and Nvidia who are not even trying hard.
Edit!!
AMD is working on doing something similar to Intel too:
AMD Is Working on Its Own Hybrid x86 CPU: Patent Filing
New patent applications suggest AMD is working on a hybrid processor of its own, even if it isn't talking about it yet.
www.extremetech.com
There is the whole talk of the Zen4c core which is a cut down Zen4 core. So we could be seeing Zen5 top out at 16 cores again(?) and perhaps AMD will pack in Zen4c cores?
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Associate
They just need to stop playing silly games. The Ryzen 5 7600X should have been under £300 and the Ryzen 7 7700X well under £400. Even Steve from HUB said the Ryzen 5 7600X need a decent price cut,as did Steve from Gamersnexus. From what I gather the Ryzen 9 CPUs are the Zen4 CPUs which are selling,and this Core i5 seems to have garnered far more interest even from mates who are on AMD systems now. Its just a more interesting CPU. AMD try to jebait too much and get jebaited themselves,by both Intel and Nvidia who are not even trying hard.
Edit!!
AMD is working on doing something similar to Intel too:
AMD Is Working on Its Own Hybrid x86 CPU: Patent Filing
New patent applications suggest AMD is working on a hybrid processor of its own, even if it isn't talking about it yet.
There is the whole talk of the Zen4c core which is a cut down Zen4 core. So we could be seeing Zen5 top out at 16 cores again(?) and perhaps AMD will pack in Zen4c cores?
Dude you are trying so hard. So so hard, the e cores mean absolutely nothing for the majority of people.
Soldato
Stats on this?