With 3D memory of CPUs and Direct Storage on GPUs, next year is the year RAM goes to die doesn't have any affect on gaming anymore
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OcUK Intel Raptor Lake review thread
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With 3D memory of CPUs and Direct Storage on GPUs, next year is the year RAM goes to die doesn't have any affect on gaming anymore
AMD is the one jacking up per core pricing of the Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 relative to the Ryzen 9. Using Ryzen 9 prices the Ryzen 5 7600X should be £290 and the Ryzen 7 7700X should be £385.
AMD is the company which is selling a Ryzen 5 7600X for £320. AMD is the one selling a Ryzen 7 7700X for £420. AMD was the one selling a Ryzen 5 5600X for £300(when a Core i5 10600K was well under £300) and AMD was the one selling a Ryzen 5 5800X for well over £400. People on here made repeated excuses for AMD jacking up the prices of CPUs with Zen3 and I argued with so many of you - it's only a problem when Intel do it(and actually offer more than AMD).
The Core i5 13600KF is £350. The reality,is that it is a 6 core with 8 smaller cores. It is a 14 core CPU.It is literally 8 Skylake cores added on top. That is what many don't seem to get.AMD is selling CPUs with less cores for similar money or more money. The Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X are massively overpriced.
Guess what? Not all of us game only. Some of us also might stream or screen record during gaming - those Skylake cores make a difference.
In gaming,even without the E-cores,the Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X are beaten/matched by the Core i5 13600k:
Intel Core i5-13600K review
Okay, so you really need to check out this Raptor Lake processor; the Core i5 13600K has six performance cores and eight energy-efficient ones. Meaning you'll have plenty of multi-threaded performanc... Performance - Gaming RTX 3090 - 1920x1080 (Full HD)
Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU
Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.
Intel Core i9-13900K and Core i5-13600K Review: Raptor Lake Beats Ryzen 7000
The Raptors are out of the cage!
That is with the E-cores active.
Then in productivity those 8,make the Core i5 13600K destroy a Ryzen 5 7600X and in many cases a Ryzen 7 7700X(see my next post).The reality the Core i5 13600KF is the fastest gaming CPU in many games under £450,and probably the fastest productivity CPU.
Who allowed Intel to price a "hybrid" 6 core CPU starting at £350? AMD did by pricing a weaker six core CPU for £320 and then pricing a weaker eight core CPU for £420. Then on top of this making the Zen4 CPUs not compatible with DDR4. All these Intel CPUs can be used with cheaper DDR4 motherboards,and can be dropped into B660 and Z690 motherboards.
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To be fair AMD just want to be paid inline with Intel. Intel were never going to come down to meet AMD. The only thing that will bring prices down will be consumers not buying "overpriced" products. I expect in the next few years as belts tighten this will happen. Initially they will try to keep prices high and sell less volume but I think they will eventually have to relent. A big issue for AMD gaining market share is if they make their offering too good they wouldn't have the volume. This is not investment advice
Now let's look at productivity benchmarks agains a Ryzen 7 7700X. Puget Systems is a good start:
www.pugetsystems.com
I only posted some of the benchmarks,but in the Puget Systems benchmarks,consistently the Core i5 13600K beats the Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X in all the image editing/video encoding scores. It even beats a Ryzen 9 5900X and Ryzen 9 5950X in many cases too,including video editing! In 3D rendering it beats a Ryzen 7 7700X and the Ryzen 9 5900X.
You can see the same here:
www.comptoir-hardware.com
Even here,in a mix of image editing,video encoding and rendering benchmarks the Core i5 13600K is beating a Ryzen 5 7600X,Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X by decent amounts.
Then there is the DF review:
www.eurogamer.net
In their gaming results the Ryzen 5 7600X is beaten,and again it's massively beaten by the Core i5 13600K in non-gaming results. Even the Ryzen 9 5950X is only slightly ahead in their video encoding results!
Guru3D shows the same trends:
www.guru3d.com
They run a lot of 3D renderers,and in all of them the Core i5 13600K is faster than a Ryzen 7 7700X. It seems to trade blows with a Ryzen 9 5900X,which is over £400.
Then look at TPU:
www.techpowerup.com
Consistently the Core i5 13600K seems to trade blows or is faster in most benchmarks than the Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X.
People might want to mock the E cores,but they since they are Skylake level,they are helping boost performance in non-gaming scenarios a lot. Overclock3D tests performance with DDR4:
www.overclock3d.net
At most in their gaming and non-gaming tests you are loosing about 10% performance. So that means even for many productivity benchmarks,the Core i5 13600K is still going to look really solid.
The reality is the Core i5 13600K is a productivity monster too,and the Core i5 13600KF is only £30 more than a Ryzen 5 7600X and significantly cheaper than either a Ryzen 7 7700X or Ryzen 9 5900X or Ryzen 9 5950X. Plus you can use a DDR4 motherboard too(even if it costs you some extra performance).
Plus you could argue the Core i5 13600K draws more power in productivity benchmarks than a Ryzen 5 7600X,but the extra speed help's its effciency.
But we also know in gaming capping the CPUs to lower TDPs,probably won't affect performance that much in gaming:
www.club386.com
You are also looking at the best productivity CPU under £400~£450:
imgur.com
13th Gen Intel Core Processors Content Creation Review
Following AMDs recent release of their Ryzen 7000 Series desktop processors, Intel is fighting back with their own launch of the Core 13th Gen processors (code named "Raptor Lake"). Unlike AMD's launch which moved to a new socket and added support for DDR5, the 13th Gen CPUs are a drop-in...
www.pugetsystems.com
I only posted some of the benchmarks,but in the Puget Systems benchmarks,consistently the Core i5 13600K beats the Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X in all the image editing/video encoding scores. It even beats a Ryzen 9 5900X and Ryzen 9 5950X in many cases too,including video editing! In 3D rendering it beats a Ryzen 7 7700X and the Ryzen 9 5900X.
You can see the same here:
Test • Intel Core i9-13900K, Core i7-13700K, Core i5-13600K & Z790
Les Core i9-13900K & 13600K ainsi que leur chipset compagnon Z790 passent à la moulinette : comparaison avec les précédentes générations de processeurs sur des jeux, encodage, traitement d'image et vidéo, rendu 3D, compression, encryptage, compilation et divers benchmarks synthétiques et...
www.comptoir-hardware.com
Even here,in a mix of image editing,video encoding and rendering benchmarks the Core i5 13600K is beating a Ryzen 5 7600X,Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X by decent amounts.
Then there is the DF review:
Intel Core i9 13900K and Core i5 13600K review: an effective redoubt against AMD's Ryzen 7000 advances
Digital Foundry tests the Intel Core i9 13900K and Core i5 13600K, two Raptor Lake processors that offer more cores, higher clocks and winning results.
www.eurogamer.net
In their gaming results the Ryzen 5 7600X is beaten,and again it's massively beaten by the Core i5 13600K in non-gaming results. Even the Ryzen 9 5950X is only slightly ahead in their video encoding results!
Guru3D shows the same trends:
Intel Core i5-13600K review
Okay, so you really need to check out this Raptor Lake processor; the Core i5 13600K has six performance cores and eight energy-efficient ones. Meaning you'll have plenty of multi-threaded performanc... Performance - Content Creation Blender / Cinebench R23
They run a lot of 3D renderers,and in all of them the Core i5 13600K is faster than a Ryzen 7 7700X. It seems to trade blows with a Ryzen 9 5900X,which is over £400.
Then look at TPU:
Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU
Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.
Consistently the Core i5 13600K seems to trade blows or is faster in most benchmarks than the Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X.
People might want to mock the E cores,but they since they are Skylake level,they are helping boost performance in non-gaming scenarios a lot. Overclock3D tests performance with DDR4:
Intel 13600K and 13900K DDR4 vs DDR5 Showdown - OC3D
Video Encoding If you thought 3D rendering didn’t have much to differentiate the two setups then the video encoding is so close it might as well be the same. Sometimes no result is still a result. Â Â Â Â
At most in their gaming and non-gaming tests you are loosing about 10% performance. So that means even for many productivity benchmarks,the Core i5 13600K is still going to look really solid.
The reality is the Core i5 13600K is a productivity monster too,and the Core i5 13600KF is only £30 more than a Ryzen 5 7600X and significantly cheaper than either a Ryzen 7 7700X or Ryzen 9 5900X or Ryzen 9 5950X. Plus you can use a DDR4 motherboard too(even if it costs you some extra performance).
Plus you could argue the Core i5 13600K draws more power in productivity benchmarks than a Ryzen 5 7600X,but the extra speed help's its effciency.
But we also know in gaming capping the CPUs to lower TDPs,probably won't affect performance that much in gaming:
Intel Core i9-13900K vs. AMD Ryzen 9 7950X at 125W and 65W | Club386
Prefer to keep temperature and power consumption down to lower levels this winter? Here's what happens when the best CPUs are scaled back.
www.club386.com
You are also looking at the best productivity CPU under £400~£450:
imgur.com
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.
imgur.com
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Soldato
To be fair AMD just want to be paid inline with Intel. Intel were never going to come down to meet AMD. The only thing that will bring prices down will be consumers not buying "overpriced" products. I expect in the next few years as belts tighten this will happen. Initially they will try to keep prices high and sell less volume but I think they will eventually have to relent. A big issue for AMD gaining market share is if they make their offering too good they wouldn't have the volume. This is not investment advice
I am personally not interested in a Core i5 13600KF at its current price either but what I am trying to point out,that it's still better value than any of the lower level Zen4 parts,and not by a small amount in non-gaming scenarios too.
I agree people should hold their purchases - but look at my previous post. People are just looking at the meme level Core i9 13900K. But look at even the productivity benchmarks of the Core i5 13600K/Core i5 13600KF?
Intel is offering far more than AMD is between £300~£450. Coupled with the fact you are not seeing a massive performance drop with decent DDR4 kit,also makes the lower end Zen4 CPUs not worth it in comparison. But if the Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X were priced inline with the Ryzen 9 CPUs,they should be £290 and £385 respectively. The Core i5 13600KF would be cheaper too. Intel is pricing the Core i5 13600KF 10% higher because it's faster than the Ryzen 5 7600X in gaming and destroys it in productivity benchmarks - even the £420 Ryzen 7 7700X finds it hard to compete.
They are pricing this relative to the Ryzen 7 7700X,because of its performance.
But we saw last generation,when Intel brought out the Core i5 12600K/Core i5 12600KF. It thrashed the Ryzen 5 5600x in productivity and was a bit faster overall in gaming.
It took ages for AMD to drop pricing. The problem is AMD needs to drop pricing for the lower end Zen4 parts. The Ryzen 5 7600X needs to be £250. The Ryzen 7 7700X needs to be £330ish(similar price per core),and it would also mean the Intel hybrid 6+8 core Core i5 13600KF would be forced under £300 too.
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I think we can all agree there is a lot of choice out there now. The biggest factors now are workload and budget. The biggest market and most common workload is going to be gaming. Your average gamer isn't going to be paying any of these prices unless desperate. Sales figures over the next 12 months will be very interesting. Obviously the enthusiast market is less price sensitive but if people on here, a niche group, are baulking at the prices what is the wider market going to think?
No doubt about it the 13600KF is a very good CPU but that's it for upgrades. If buying new I'd either hold on or suck it up and pay a bit more for AM5 and have years of upgrade potential. You pays your money... as they say. Look at it this way, there are no bad choices
No doubt about it the 13600KF is a very good CPU but that's it for upgrades. If buying new I'd either hold on or suck it up and pay a bit more for AM5 and have years of upgrade potential. You pays your money... as they say. Look at it this way, there are no bad choices
But the problem is that that I wouldn't invest in AM5 for future upgrades either because that is reliant on decent entry level options. This is what AM4 had - decent performance and decently priced entry level options.
The Ryzen 5 7600X is a very poor CPU for the price - it's slower in gaming(when you look at an average of a large number of gaming) and massively slower in productivity than a Ryzen 5 13600KF so needs replacing quicker.
Also I knew the Core i5 13600K was decent in productivity,but after compiling the numbers,it even beats the Ryzen 7 7700X in a lot of productivity benchmarks too!
Even in gaming,I am uncertain a Ryzen 7 7700X will outlast it,and the issue is what happens when Intel starts trying to push for developers to use the Skylake level E-cores? For things like streaming or game captures,those E-cores have an effect already because they can offload background tasks.So even the Ryzen 7 7700X isn't really great compared to a Core i5 13600KF even for a new build(especially if you use DDR4). Also there are consistent rumours the Core i5 13400 is a rebranded Core i5 12600K and the Core i5 13500 adds 4 more Skylake level E-cores to the basic Core i5 13400/Core i5 12600K.
If that is the case,the Core i5 13500F might end up being a very decent sub £300 CPU.
Even Gamersnexus pointed out the Core i5 13600K/Core i5 13600K is still an option if you use DDR4. So basically it only makes sense to go onto AM5 if you want a Ryzen 9 where you have the best of both worlds.
I really hope when AMD releases the Zen4 3D parts,they price the X3D parts higher to keep the non X3D prices at the current level.
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I think you're right. Sit on your hands and see what X3D brings. By that time RL and 7XXX will have been out a while and pricing should have had time to settle. I'm sure at that point you'll have a decent option. If you are in no hurry time is your best friend. If you need it right now I'd buy a 7600X and then sell it and buy an X3D later but that might not be right for you.But the problem is that that I wouldn't invest in AM5 for future upgrades either because that is reliant on decent entry level options. This is what AM4 had - decent performance and decently priced entry level options.
The Ryzen 5 7600X is a very poor CPU for the price - it's slower in gaming(when you look at an average of a large number of gaming) and massively slower in productivity than a Ryzen 5 13600KF so needs replacing quicker. Also I knew the Core i5 13600K was decent in productivity,but after compiling the numbers,it even beats the Ryzen 7 7700X in a lot of productivity benchmarks too!
So even the Ryzen 7 7700X isn't really great compared to a Core i5 13600KF even for a new build(especially if you use DDR4). So basically it only makes sense to go onto AM5 if you want a Ryzen 9 where you have the best of both worlds.
I really hope when AMD releases the Zen4 3D parts,they price the X3D parts higher to keep the non X3D prices at the current level.
Well I think most people who don't need a Ryzen 9 should wait for the X3D parts. Personally I am waiting for Zen5. Hopefully by then PCI-E 5.0 will be standard on the cheap motherboards too.
However,if the prices and price/performance don't get better by then,I might eventually get a console,and the desktop PC will be used for older games and eventually I will get a laptop.
Now let's look at productivity benchmarks agains a Ryzen 7 7700X. Puget Systems is a good start:
13th Gen Intel Core Processors Content Creation Review
Following AMDs recent release of their Ryzen 7000 Series desktop processors, Intel is fighting back with their own launch of the Core 13th Gen processors (code named "Raptor Lake"). Unlike AMD's launch which moved to a new socket and added support for DDR5, the 13th Gen CPUs are a drop-in...
I only posted some of the benchmarks,but in the Puget Systems benchmarks,consistently the Core i5 13600K beats the Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X in all the image editing/video encoding scores. It even beats a Ryzen 9 5900X and Ryzen 9 5950X in many cases too,including video editing! In 3D rendering it beats a Ryzen 7 7700X and the Ryzen 9 5900X.
You can see the same here:
Test • Intel Core i9-13900K, Core i7-13700K, Core i5-13600K & Z790
Les Core i9-13900K & 13600K ainsi que leur chipset compagnon Z790 passent à la moulinette : comparaison avec les précédentes générations de processeurs sur des jeux, encodage, traitement d'image et vidéo, rendu 3D, compression, encryptage, compilation et divers benchmarks synthétiques et...
Even here,in a mix of image editing,video encoding and rendering benchmarks the Core i5 13600K is beating a Ryzen 5 7600X,Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X by decent amounts.
Then there is the DF review:
Intel Core i9 13900K and Core i5 13600K review: an effective redoubt against AMD's Ryzen 7000 advances
Digital Foundry tests the Intel Core i9 13900K and Core i5 13600K, two Raptor Lake processors that offer more cores, higher clocks and winning results.
In their gaming results the Ryzen 5 7600X is beaten,and again it's massively beaten by the Core i5 13600K in non-gaming results. Even the Ryzen 9 5950X is only slightly ahead in their video encoding results!
Guru3D shows the same trends:
Intel Core i5-13600K review
Okay, so you really need to check out this Raptor Lake processor; the Core i5 13600K has six performance cores and eight energy-efficient ones. Meaning you'll have plenty of multi-threaded performanc... Performance - Content Creation Blender / Cinebench R23
They run a lot of 3D renderers,and in all of them the Core i5 13600K is faster than a Ryzen 7 7700X. It seems to trade blows with a Ryzen 9 5900X,which is over £400.
Then look at TPU:
Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU
Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.
Consistently the Core i5 13600K seems to trade blows or is faster in most benchmarks than the Ryzen 7 7700X and Ryzen 9 5900X.
People might want to mock the E cores,but they since they are Skylake level,they are helping boost performance in non-gaming scenarios a lot. Overclock3D tests performance with DDR4:
Intel 13600K and 13900K DDR4 vs DDR5 Showdown - OC3D
Video Encoding If you thought 3D rendering didn’t have much to differentiate the two setups then the video encoding is so close it might as well be the same. Sometimes no result is still a result. Â Â Â Â
At most in their gaming and non-gaming tests you are loosing about 10% performance. So that means even for many productivity benchmarks,the Core i5 13600K is still going to look really solid.
The reality is the Core i5 13600K is a productivity monster too,and the Core i5 13600KF is only £30 more than a Ryzen 5 7600X and significantly cheaper than either a Ryzen 7 7700X or Ryzen 9 5900X or Ryzen 9 5950X. Plus you can use a DDR4 motherboard too(even if it costs you some extra performance).
Plus you could argue the Core i5 13600K draws more power in productivity benchmarks than a Ryzen 5 7600X,but the extra speed help's its effciency.
But we also know in gaming capping the CPUs to lower TDPs,probably won't affect performance that much in gaming:
Intel Core i9-13900K vs. AMD Ryzen 9 7950X at 125W and 65W | Club386
Prefer to keep temperature and power consumption down to lower levels this winter? Here's what happens when the best CPUs are scaled back.
You are also looking at the best productivity CPU under £400~£450:
imgur.com
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.
Is it really a surprise for productivity it has 8 e cores personally I wouldn't buy that lower tier for productivity most are not buying it for that it's gonna be for gaming what I do find impressive is the gaming results . Just wished they reduced some of the e cores and offered it for less
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What is as surprising is the meme cores actually help a lot for non-gaming scenarios. But then they are Skylake level performance,and clock upto 4.2GHZ IIRC. Now imagine how much it helps for game streaming and game capture? The performance in video editing benchmarks is fantastic for a sub £400 CPU. It trades blows with a Ryzen 9 5950X!!
I also do both gaming and non-gaming stuff as do a lot of friends. As nice as Ryzen 9 CPUs are they are well over £400. Even with the rubbish exchange rates,the Core i5 13600KF is still well under £400. Remember,the exchange rates got even worse since the Zen4 release(so it could mean Zen4 prices go up for newer stock).
So when you have gaming performance similar/faster than the Ryzen 5 7600X/Ryzen 7 7700X and productivity is as good/faster than a Ryzen 7 7700X,it really makes me wonder what AMD was smoking WRT to pricing.
Also thank goodness for AMD,that Intel doesn't sell the non-E core versions under £300. However,it appears Intel is rebadging ADL under £300. The Core i5 13400/13400F will be a rebadged Core i5 12600K/12600KF,but there are rumours the Core i5 13500/13600 will add four more E-cores to the Core i5 12600K/12600KF configuration. That will make them not only fairly quick for gaming but also for budget production orientated PCs.
Associate
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There's a misconception about ecores hurting gaming and this was mainly from those who bought ADL and wanted to stick it on Windows 10 despite warnings. It's also an easy distraction by the people who haven't had direct expereince with the platform but tend to post the most here.
As shown here: https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10...bschnitt_vorteil_durch_mehr_ecores_in_spielen There's no detriment to gaming from the ecores. Naturally, they add a lot for producvity and also are good at handling backgroup tasks which is often not considered in reviews. In some games, they will add some performance as well. As W11 has evolved, ecore handling has improved greatly. Would I take more Pcores over Ecores? ofcourse but they're not some performance killing evil. Also the ring clock bug is fixed on RPL so ring can now scale with ecores enabled which wasn't the case on adl
As I menionted in the other thread, we're seeing pretty much any 13600k land around 5.5 all core with some voltage and llc tuning so there's notable headroom on top of the already great performance.
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Associate
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For the general audience, I want to point out the ridiculous nature of a statment like this.
Under no circumstances should you limit one platform to the lower ceiling of another. It's not one platforms fault they executed better than the other in a key metric of performance.
For fairness, I'd be curious if the poster asked for Zen4 to be downclocked to ADL levels for an "apples to apples" in reviews. Hopefully such quest for fairness exists and this isn't just bias screaming at the top of it's lungs!
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but whos buying the 13600k ? cant imagine many are buying it for productivity in that chart looks like dropping 4 e cores doesnt effect much in performance in gaming and still be ahead for MT imagine 6p-4e which would lower power and if closer priced to the 7600k , would wipe the floor budget system for gaming and on DDR4
it's not the additional E-Cores in the Core i5 that push the CPU up a notch either
it's not the additional E-Cores in the Core i5 that push the CPU up a notch either
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Currently running an Intel 8700k and game at 4k & VR with a 3080TI. Rather than going all in with a top end CPU, MB, DDR5, would I still see good gains going to a 13600K + new MB and keeping the DDR4 I have. Then in a couple of years do a big bang upgrade of everything?
It would be a good upgrade for sure, but if the ram is on the slower side then a 5800X3D would perform better most likely. Remember that when you look at benchmarks they're often running souped up kits & DDR5, so it's not always representative for the average user.
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