*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[eddiew]

...They are far more likely to licences concepts from AMD's rather large stack of patents than to ask RTG to solder a Polaris/Vega part to their 8xxx CPUs

Probably want to license TressFX

 

[xs2man]

Who cares - IGPs for desktop are for budget computers. Just because Intel made a £200 part which has a reasonable IGP,so what??

The parts with eDRAM are more expensive to make as they are a MCM.

You could probably buy a £100 CPU and a £100 graphics card which would demolish it anyway.

Even with the AMD APUs once you go above £70 their value proposition drops off a cliff IMHO OFC.

Not necessarily. I'm not a big gamer at all on my PC, so I do appreciate a semi-reasonable IGP in my i7 (or whatever cpu I end up buying). I wouldn't necessarily consider an i7 build a budget build.

Sure, I know I can't play the latest games or whatever, certainly not at anything like reasonable settings. But it's comforting to know there is some capability in there at least.

I am excited about the Zen though. Hopefully they release some pricing soon.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not necessarily. I'm not a big gamer at all on my PC, so I do appreciate a semi-reasonable IGP in my i7 (or whatever cpu I end up buying). I wouldn't necessarily consider an i7 build a budget build.

Sure, I know I can't play the latest games or whatever, certainly not at anything like reasonable settings. But it's comforting to know there is some capability in there at least.

I am excited about the Zen though. Hopefully they release some pricing soon.

The Core i7 6700HQ costs $389,or basically £400 if any retailer sold it.

To put it in context,a normal Core i7 6700 can be had for £290.

Try looking for prebuilt desktops with the Core i7 6700HQ or even the CPUs themselves - hardly anybody sold them. Nobody cares for the socketed chip.

I know nobody,even among my mates who bought a Core i7 for non-gaming use ,who would spend £100 for a IGP they might use.

£100 buys you a RX460 or GTX1050 which would destroy the GT4e IGP in every metric from gaming to things like OpenCL.

Plus thats the thing you need to also understand,entire Core i3 and APU systems can be had for £300,or less than the cost of the Core i7 6700HQ itself.

Trying to boast that a £400 chip with an IGP can beat a £70 to £100 one is hilarious,when people ignore the fact that the sub £300 Intel IGPs are still loosing to a 2014 AMD IGP which is ancient.

So,basically to have a win for Intel you need to spend 4 times more??

You can get an entire console for under £250 which have IGPs(yes they are IGPs) which destroy a Core i7 6700HQ.

I mean are people actually excited about IGPs on £400 CPUs??

I could understand a £100 Core i3 with GT4e graphics,that might be quite interesting.

 

[Martini1991]

Doesn't matter what price it is.
It was stated that it was slower.
It's not.
End of argument because it's a pointless one

 

[d_brennen]

Circular argument is circular. Iris Pro is great, the hardware is great. The drivers suck in the real world.

The future for APUs is local high speed memory. In a few years we'll see proper SoC APUs with unified memory onboard, but for the moment you either buy an expensive Iris Pro equipped Intel system with less than game-ready drivers or a bandwidth starved AMD system. Neither are great for us, because members of enthusiast forums aren't the target, both are more than fine for Joe Soap's iFap laptop

/ot

 

[humbug]

I read that, but it's laughable. Even Intel wouldn't throw away all the time and money they've spent on iGPU design iteration. They are far more likely to licences concepts from AMD's rather large stack of patents than to ask RTG to solder a Polaris/Vega part to their 8xxx CPUs

Intels iGPU designs are Nvidia Fermi, that deal is at an end and dead, Intel don't actually have their own ground up designed GPU's, they don't have the patents for that in the same way Nvidia cannot make X86_64 CPU's because they don't have the patents.

They will be starting again as they are no longer using Nvidia's obsolete tech, they will use one of AMD architectures, probably GCN 1.3 (Polaris)

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Circular argument is circular. Iris Pro is great, the hardware is great. The drivers suck in the real world.

The future for APUs is local high speed memory. In a few years we'll see proper SoC APUs with unified memory onboard, but for the moment you either buy an expensive Iris Pro equipped Intel system with less than game-ready drivers or a bandwidth starved AMD system. Neither are great for us, because members of enthusiast forums aren't the target, both are more than fine for Joe Soap's iFap laptop

/ot

Exactly,and people are getting overexcited about some £400 IGP that none of them will ever buy one for a socketed system themselves. Yet,the same lot ignore the fact that all three new generation consoles use huge IGPs and shared memory,which many more people will actually buy and game on.

Who would buy a desktop system with a Core i7 6700HQ when a £290 Core i7 6700 with a RX460/GTX1050 costs the same,and as expected in a AMD Ryzen thread they need to sell out wonderous the latest Intel IGPs are.

If they are that excited about them maybe,they can buy one and compare it to a Core i3 and GTX1060 and see which one has better performance.

But all of a sudden cost is not important to them,yet in the same AMD threads,they keep saying AMD Ryzen needs to be X price,etc.

 

[Bonjour]

Are we likely to see any Zen APU's with unified HBM memory at any time soon?

 

[Scougar]

Really want a new CPU etc to go with my GTX 1070. Hoping the Ryzen will put some good options forward with reasonable prices.

 

[Jokester]

I wouldn't be so bothered about the iGPU on the S1151 K chips if the equivalent S2011 CPUs/MBs were being released at the same time give or take.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Are we likely to see any Zen APU's with unified HBM memory at any time soon?

GT4e apparently happened as a result of Apple pushing Intel to make it,so they could get rid of dGPUs in certain lines they do.

AMD will only do an HBM SKU if they decide to target the same primary market,as the GT4e SKUs,ie,laptops.

The only way AMD can do so is if Ryzen has decent IPC,otherwise they will be massively limited by clockspeeds.

 

[d_brennen]

Are we likely to see any Zen APU's with unified HBM memory at any time soon?

Don't hold your breath, will probably come with 7mn IMHO

 

[Bonjour]

I feel there's potentially a massive market for Steam boxes, although maybe Sony and Microsoft wouldn't be best pleased about that.

 

[Davedree]

I have not see anybody out of the dozens of PC owners I know have a Core i7 6700HQ or the Broadwell version.

Who in their right mind would be spending nearly £400 on a socketed Core i7 6700HQ.

IGPs are made for low cost on desktop - only you are getting overexcited when Core i3 and AMD APU systems are being sold for less than the cost of an entire Core i7 6700HQ.

I am not sure what reality I have walked into here.

The entire XBox One,PS4 or PS4 PRO is being sold for less(or similar cost) than a Core i7 6700HQ and destroys it in the IGP E-PEEN wars(they all use shared memory).
Yes,lets compare a £400 CPU against £100 and under ones.
I
How about a Core i3 6100 or Pentium G4260 which actually are priced similar to the APUs??

Plus here are some more recent games tested with the Core i7 5775C:



So,basically to beat a £70 to £100 AMD IGP,you would need to spend £300+ ,yet even a £300 Core i7 6700K cannot beat a £100 AMD IGP.

Maybe when Intel makes a £100 Core i3 with L4 cache,I might get excited about it,not some SKU that barely most people will even look at when doing a desktop build or buying an OEM prebuilt desktop. Not even OcUK does many(if any) desktop builds with the HQ series CPUs.

Whats even more shocking is how poor Intel IGP performance under £300 is and wheeling out a part which hardly any retailer ever sold in the UK is pointless. If a Core i7 6700K cannot even beat a 2014 A10,that certainly means a Core i3 won't be able to either.

So despite a move to 14NM,and three more generations of IGPs,DDR4 and better memory controllers,Intel Core i3 and Core i5 IGPs are not that exciting. Its probably why AMD has hardly bothered improving IGP performance and Bristol Ridge only really has improved compute performance and media support.

Once AMD gets improved CPU performance with Ryzen I expect there will be more impetus to improve IGP performance,not when it is stuck at older Core i3 level with their APUs.

Not disputing anything you say, spot on with your conclusions, i did say it was expensive and thankyou for those game benches, that was broadwell iris pro 6200 48eu against kaveri r7.
But like i said there is a big boost in gt4e iris pro 580 which has 72 eu's.
Unfortunately playing the igp peen, with console apu's which i totally get your point by the way, can't be validated because harlequinn stated that you have to be able to buy it on desktop.

 

[Harlequin]

lol far from it

I asked you to clarify with citation your quote of:

Gt4e has been well ahead of amd for a while.

and so far , you have failed.

 

[Davedree]

can I buy one for desktop?

of course, it's expensive though

ark says that BGA - its not a desktop part? and what is FCBGA 1440? is that even a desktop part (socket)?

So then if you're playing bga game, just because something is not socketed you decide it's not desktop. End of the day carrizo was out as bga in 2015 mobile, enterprise custom.
2016 carrizo/bristol ridge was taken up by oem only.
So you will have had to wait over 1.5 years to see bristol ridge on am4.
To which it's still missing in action.

Strange that you have to defend amds defeat in igp, by saying yeah but you can'get it on drsktop. Well yes you can by definition it's a soc in a discreet case, it's just not socketed.


Edit all amd had to do was program that spare gddr5 unused memory controller in kaveri, they would have owned the igp sector.

lol far from it

I asked you to clarify with citation your quote of:




and so far , you have failed.

Really far from it, you said it's not a desktop part.No i don't need to prove anything, you refused to provide assistance, so you chose not to talk about it.
Bye bye.

 

[StarShock]

Well it looks like the ocuk Ryzen pc is in an in-win case. https://twitter.com/LinusTech/status/817201464992886784

 

[Lokken86]

Ryzen will have a faster IGP than any Intel processor I'm sure but who buys it for that.

I'm still very interested in how integrated graphics is advancing. Pretty cool if you ask me.

 

[Harlequin]

Really far from it, you said it's not a desktop part.No i don't need to prove anything, you refused to provide assistance, so you chose not to talk about it.
Bye bye.

you made the statement that iris pro is faster than AMD - I do not have to `help you` for anything - you need to prove what you have said is true or STFU.

right now , you have proved nothing at all.

doesn't matter if its desktop or not , BGA or not - you made a blanket statement and cannot back up you failure.

 

[Jokester]

Guys, cut it out please.