*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[Caracus2k]

I am sure all will balance out the performance of these cpu's and platforms vs cost and moan............

Some people on this forum are going to be terribly upset and disappointed judging by their posts if they don't get 6900k beating octo core performance for current intel 6700k/7700k prices!

 

[JediFragger]

Does anyone know if the new Zen CPU's will have AVX 2.0?

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

Some people on this forum are going to be terribly upset and disappointed judging by their posts if they don't get 6900k beating octo core performance for current intel 6700k/7700k prices!

Will you be selling off your setup for Skylake-x or Ryzen then? Just wondering.

 

[akarypid]

Does anyone know if the new Zen CPU's will have AVX 2.0?

They do, but they do it across 128-bit registers requiring double the clock cycles. On the other hand this helps with power consumption and temperatures.

 

[humbug]

Some people on this forum are going to be terribly upset and disappointed judging by their posts if they don't get 6900k beating octo core performance for current intel 6700k/7700k prices!

No body thinks that, that's just your hyperbole.

But its also not going to be anything like £1000, like the 6900K is, if Zen is as good as the 6900K i can see people get upset about that for all sorts of reasons. Including some retailers who sell these ridiculously overpriced Intel platforms.

 

[eddyr]

Don't ask...(re back and forth). Honestly, the avx offset isn't meant to be used on BWE in our case as it requires the condition of auto voltage. That's why ASUS made the thermal control tool. You're best off reading up on this on the ASUS Edge site.

You could probably summarise it in the context that majority of us would use it for; as the ability to set both a light load and heavy load ratio. The TCT lets you do this regardless of whether that's AVX or not. Both have the same end goal, though.

Cheers. Interesting read. Overclocking is getting incrementally more nuanced since the 1155 platform. Don't know whether I welcome that or not!

(For anyone else wanting a read about the thermal control tool - https://edgeup.asus.com/2016/05/31/...dwell-e-processors-asus-thermal-control-tool/)
I agree with the concluding page. Having a configurable secondary voltage for AVX or load voltage/ratio in uefi would be a cool next step.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Cheers. Interesting read. Overclocking is getting incrementally more nuanced since the 1155 platform. Don't know whether I welcome that or not!

(For anyone else wanting a read about the thermal control tool - https://edgeup.asus.com/2016/05/31/...dwell-e-processors-asus-thermal-control-tool/)
I agree with the concluding page. Having a configurable secondary voltage for AVX or load voltage/ratio in uefi would be a cool next step.

This is available with Z270. There is a penalty doing this compared with using the tool, I've been told. In terms of reaction time. Because of this it's preferable to use the app.

No body thinks that, that's just your hyperbole.

But its also not going to be anything like £1000, like the 6900K is, if Zen is as good as the 6900K i can see people get upset about that for all sorts of reasons. Including some retailers who sell these ridiculously overpriced Intel platforms.

Lol, that's just replacing his hyperbole with your own

 

[Caracus2k]

Will you be selling off your setup for Skylake-x or Ryzen then? Just wondering.

I won't be buying any of the Ryzen CPU's due to launch this year in all likelihood. Even by AMD's marketing they are only positioning their top chip to be competitive with broadwell-e 6900k's which of course is a drop in upgrade for me if I choose to do so. Not worth swapping platforms for likely no tangible gains over my two year old setup with it's CPU that cost me under £300 at the times (yes I known it costs more now) albeit the mobo and memory wasn't cheap at the time! Will probably skip skylake-x to unless it really offers something massively compelling to me...... before my x99 setup i was using an x58 setup with a i7 920do intially then a i7 980 hex and skipped the x79 platform totally.

 

[mmj_uk]

But its also not going to be anything like £1000, like the 6900K is

I doubt 6900K is going to be £1000 either once AMD have competition out.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I doubt 6900K is going to be £1000 either once AMD have competition out.

It may not come down as much as you think. The reason a top of the line chip like the 6900K is so very, very pricey is for some very sound marketing reasons. There are, broadly speaking, two types of customers. Those who evaluate carefully and want value for money; and those who don't care about the money and buy whatever they feel like. Because of the latter set it makes good sense to have an outlier product or two that is far more expensive than the rest of the range for them to buy.

That's why you keep getting people remarking about how overpriced something is. It's because they're the first type of customer and they expect the price of it to be sanely related to the rest of the range that they're looking at. But it's not for them. It's for the person who just clicks on the most expensive item because it's the most expensive item.

As long as Intel are able to keep the performance crown (which they will for at least the forseeable future), there will be an "overpriced" top of the line product.

In any case, the battle the two companies will really be fighting is in the server market. We have pages of people here arguing about performance (of a chip no independent reviewer can talk about yet, incidentally), but what will make or break AMD is performance per watt.

 

[Caracus2k]

Some people on this forum are going to be terribly upset and disappointed judging by their posts if they don't get 6900k beating octo core performance for current intel 6700k/7700k prices!

No body thinks that, that's just your hyperbole.

You challenged and the zen pricing thread delivers....

Their 8 core needs to be less than £400, it absolutely needs to be. Intel prices are broken so aren't an example of what AMD prices should be.

spoffle leads the charge.....

Something that is quite easy to miss is that the 6900K is not a $1000 CPU, it's a $400-500 CPU that Intel are selling for $1000 because they know that without competition they can get away with it and that overcharging for the high end CPUs means they can overcharge for the entire lineup.

Seriously, the 6900K is one step down from the extreme models, it's the Q9650 (~£300) of this generation.

Ubersonic seems to think that the 6900k is only the price it is due to no competition so it and any comparable competing CPU should sell for circa £300 even adjusted from q9650 launch (2008) to 2017 ££'s that's around £350-375

I'm hoping for a 4 core, 8 thread Ryzen that will match existing i7s therefore forcing Intel to a shake things up to stay competitive. This might see:

2 core, 4 thread (e.g i3 6100 equivalent) for sub £80

4 core, 4 thread (e.g i5 6400 - 6600k) in the £80-£120 region

4 core, 8 thread (e.g i7 6700) starting at around £130 to compete with the equivalent Ryzen.

Uriel thinks an AMD i7 6700 competing chip could cost £130... Can't see him thinking a 8c/16t cpu will cost much more than £350 if that's the case.....

£480 seems high to me. I think AMD will line up close to Skylake prices.

And or course you can always rely on jigger....

£350 isn't nothing (for the 8c, 16t), and that's a very reasonable price to pay on a single small square chip IMO.

Undesirable helps hammer home my point....


I assume you'll be retracting your statement that my post was hyperbole now????

 

[mmj_uk]

They aren't going to leave 6900K at £1000 if everybody is buying a cheaper AMD alternative though. Intel will have the performance crown regardless because of 6950X which they could move down to the £1000 mark.

 

[DragonQ]

Well given that AMD have only touted broadwell ...esque IPC for ryzen at low clocks below 'comparable' intel cpu stock frequncies and we don't yet know how well it will over clock..... (doesn't look all that promising at the moment 4Ghz is pretty much a cake walk for either haswell-e or broadwell-e hex or octo core cpu's with decent cooling surely AMD could have demoed at more like this speed if retail ryzen hex/octo cored CPU's are capable of 4Ghz++, like the competition with ease by now given retail release is slated for around 2months from now?)

AMD have already told us that the stock speed will be 3.4 GHz+ and various reports of later steppings show they can boost to 3.9-4 GHz. This is higher than Intel's equivalent chips are clocked at. You're right about not knowing how well these guys overclock but to say it doesn't look promising because Ryzen's stock clocks aren't as good as what Intel's chips can overclock to is disingenuous.

 

[~>Dg<~]

but most recent x99 chips will do 4.4 atleast

 

[eddiew]

Any actual information yet chaps, or are we still squabbling over rumours?

 

[Caracus2k]

AMD have already told us that the stock speed will be 3.4 GHz+ and various reports of later steppings show they can boost to 3.9-4 GHz. This is higher than Intel's equivalent chips are clocked at. You're right about not knowing how well these guys overclock but to say it doesn't look promising because Ryzen's stock clocks aren't as good as what Intel's chips can overclock to is disingenuous.

AMD must have retail quality silicon by now, can you think of a good reason that they didn't demo a 4Ghz+ 8c/16t CPU at CES if it will achieve 4Ghz+ easily?

Just saying when AMD have to demo against a DOWN clocked intel cpu shortly before release it doesn't look like Ryzen will be a great clocker, willing and happy to be proved wrong on this of course...

 

[h4rm0ny]

AMD must have retail quality silicon by now, can you think of a good reason that they didn't demo a 4Ghz+ 8c/16t CPU at CES if it will achieve 4Ghz+ easily?

A doomed attempt to stop people getting over-hyped about a chip that will be good but still below Intel's top chips.

But seriously, their goal is to deliver performance per watt to the server market. Maybe people will be able to OC it to 4GHz. That's quite possible it could happen. But I doubt that's normal for it. That's not what it's for.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Any actual information yet chaps, or are we still squabbling over rumours?

Squabbling! And I should know better. I'm out of here until some real news comes along. Have fun everybody!

 

[DragonQ]

AMD must have retail quality silicon by now, can you think of a good reason that they didn't demo a 4Ghz+ 8c/16t CPU at CES if it will achieve 4Ghz+ easily?

Has Intel ever done such an official demo with overclocked parts? "Here's a demo of two chips running at 4 GHz....except we won't be releasing any that run at 4 GHz except for boost" - sounds a bit dumb, no? It's pretty clear the point of the demo was to show relative IPC, not overclocking potential. We already know AMD hadn't finalised their boost frequencies by the time they did the demo. Perhaps that's because Ryzen doesn't clock as well as Broadwell-E, we don't know yet.

 

[humbug]

They aren't going to leave 6900K at £1000 if everybody is buying a cheaper AMD alternative though. Intel will have the performance crown regardless because of 6950X which they could move down to the £1000 mark.

Intel lowering prices on anything is Intel admitting they are over priced now and that AMD are competitive, Intel have more than enough mindshare and fanboys to keep the prices as high as they are today.