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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***
- Thread starter Boomstick777
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Caporegime
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Damn, I hope Ryzen delivers, I don't want to have to wait until well into 2018 for a 6 core upgrade.
Unless I'm missing something I fail to see the what the back and forth is about tbh. I recall the coverage of AVX running at slightly lower clocks to reduce power/heat and I don't particularly see the issue with that. Having the multi offset user definable seems useful for ocing, next step would appear to be additional control over AVX voltage.
Soldato
Don't ask...(re back and forth). Honestly, the avx offset isn't meant to be used on BWE in our case as it requires the condition of auto voltage. That's why ASUS made the thermal control tool. You're best off reading up on this on the ASUS Edge site.
You could probably summarise it in the context that majority of us would use it for; as the ability to set both a light load and heavy load ratio. The TCT lets you do this regardless of whether that's AVX or not. Both have the same end goal, though.
You could probably summarise it in the context that majority of us would use it for; as the ability to set both a light load and heavy load ratio. The TCT lets you do this regardless of whether that's AVX or not. Both have the same end goal, though.
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Soldato
I'm just checking that Intel are not planing on following up Ryzen this year with their consumer 6 cores.
Soldato
It's using a 128 bit FMAC unit:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10591...t-2-extracting-instructionlevel-parallelism/7
Caporegime
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It's using a 2x 128bit FPU , Bulldozer had similar but per module rather than per core. So in a 8 threaded situation it essentially has double the FPU throughput, in 4 threaded(and only if it was well balanced) it has about the same FPU throughput as Bulldozer did as any core could use both the FPU units in bulldozer. That is talking about maximum throughput, theoretical. Zen will be drastically better able to fully load the FPU unit so will have a real world very much higher throughput. In 8+ thread situation in real world performance it's FPU performance should be well over doubled.
Caporegime
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I've said this elsewhere, but next year we're going to have quad core Zen APUs, 8 core CPUs and Intel will have a hexcore APU to fight it with.
The issue really for enthusiasts is, unless Intel has a 33% ipc advantage, 8 core Zen will most likely offer best CPU performance and probably for cheaper also. If you want an APU for GPU performance, be it gaming or other gpu acceleration Zen quad core APU is still going to be superior to the Intel Hexcore.
Intel igpu can't beat with 28nm gpus based on GCN with uncompetitive CPU pushing data to them, without a giant expensive stack of cache that only comes on more expensive chips that are only really used in laptops. A 14nm APU with Vega gpu, probably 3-4 times the performance and more than enough CPU performance to max out the igpu is going to destroy Intel on raw GPU performance and be even stronger when considering driver support for gaming or gpu acceleration, both of which Intel barely gives thought to.
So even then Intel will have more cores in APU, the reasons you want an APU, the 2 extra cores won't help, you're increasing cost for no end user benefit and 2 more cores in mainstream looks unlikely to be competitive with Zen for pure CPU performance. Intel isn't going to be bringing anything particularly compelling till 2019 if and when they bring either real GPU performance to compete with Zen APUs(extremely unlikely) or if they bring 8 core chips to mainstream, much more likely.
AMD are supposed to have a schedule of yearly updates to the architecture for 3 years. So there should be something new maybe late 2018 for Zen, more cores in either chip or just performance updates, who knows. But it's pretty likely that where Intel is struggling to find incremental updates, the first iteration of Zen will bring back a lot of data on the biggest bottlenecks and could easily have a really good performance bump. Piledriver was what, 15% faster or so IPC, I wouldn't be surprised to see Zen+ bring more performance than Cannonlake.
OcUK Staff
^^ again be careful with this speculation.....X299 Skylake E is a power house platform.
Soldato
Yup. Q4 all being well.
Soldato
But not due in 2017?
I guess what I'm asking here is, if I was to go and buy a Ryzen build when it arrives, are Intel due to release their consumer grade (not enthusiast) 6 core chips in this year? Because I'm not in a rush and could wait a bit longer.
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The answer I'm getting here, is both yes and no.
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Skylake-E isn't the normal "consumer" grade i7 its the "enthusiast" chip, we have had hexa cores on the intel "X" platform chips for quite a while like the 5820K, these are also lacking IGP
AMD will have quad / hex and octa core consumer grade APU's with good IGP (probably) this year
aren't the next batch of APU's from AMD not Zen based? although they will be AM4 compatible?
Edit: yes thought so its the 'Bristol Ridge' 7th gen next for AM4 boards which is not Zen based... could see the Zen APu's being late 2017 or 2018 now? Bristol Ridge at best looks to only be aiming at the i5 Intel CPU's on the CPU side of things with its Excavator cores.
The top model, the AMD A12-9800 has the usual four CPU cores so will be a bit of a wait for a 'performance' APU from AMD yet
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Caporegime
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But that has what to do with what? I literally said mainstream multiple times.
In sub £300 cpu pricing you'll have AMD with easily the fastest GPU and thus 2 extra cores won't make the hexcore Cannonlake very compelling at all. You will also have 8 core Zen, which again doesn't make a Hexcore APU very compelling.
In reality you really want to spend on an igpu or you don't, AMD for mainstream platforms has more CPUs or far more GPU performance, Intel will have more cores on their APU, but if you want an APU for gpu performance... it makes the Intel Hexcore pretty meh.
A quad channel(nearly useless for 98% of stuff) platform with £1000 cpus isn't particularly compelling either. Sure if you absolutely, positively have to kill every last mother benchmark in the room, a 10 core Skylake will beat an 8 core Zen. But lets be honest, who is that relevant to? £100+ more for the motherboard, £300 + for more than 8 cores, Skylake-E isn't very compelling either. In fact, I hadn't looked up broadwell-E pricing... lol.
No, Broadwell-E with only 6 cores is almost £600, 8 cores almost £1000 and 10 cores £1600... that isn't even slightly compelling. I was going to say before checking the price that I wonder what a cheaper server board and a 16 core AMD server chip might come in at, but at £1500 for 10 core Skylake... I wouldn't be surprised if there is some actually competitive 16core server grade chips from AMD. That will certainly be interesting.
Currently pricing on Broadwell-E is horrendous, I thought it was ~£300 for 6 core, ~500 for 8 core and ~ 1000 for 10 core, and I thought that pricing was bad. Would you go from a £350-400 8 core Zen, to £1500 Skylake-E just to get 2 more cores, + £100 on the motherboard. I sure as hell wouldn't.
But again my point was comparing cheaper prices and mainstream which is 99.99% of buyers on this forum. A hexcore i7 APU won't be particularly compelling as in reality most people want CPU or GPU performance and rarely both in the same chip.
Soldato
Skylake-X is due 2H 2017.
Caporegime
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It's almost certain AMD won't have a 8 core APU this year. You either get two sets of 4 cores together for CPU only, or you get one set of 4 cores and a gpu. It's not looking likely that they'll have 6 core APUs. At the moment it looks like the design is fairly modular and that it's in units of 4 cores. Zen+ in 2018 might bring more cores to either CPU or APU but this year we're getting 4/6/8 core CPU and 4 (probably 2 also) core APUs.
Soldato
Platform semantics. I know what I'd rather have between Ryzen and an 8 core SKL.
Well given that AMD have only touted broadwell ...esque IPC for ryzen at low clocks below 'comparable' intel cpu stock frequncies and we don't yet know how well it will over clock..... (doesn't look all that promising at the moment 4Ghz is pretty much a cake walk for either haswell-e or broadwell-e hex or octo core cpu's with decent cooling surely AMD could have demoed at more like this speed if retail ryzen hex/octo cored CPU's are capable of 4Ghz++, like the competition with ease by now given retail release is slated for around 2months from now?)
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OcUK Staff
I am sure all will balance out the performance of these cpu's and platforms vs cost and moan............